On 3/14/04 11:04 PM, "Mike Dilger" > wrote:

>
>
> Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>>> Incidentally, the one thing I don't like about this bread is that it's never
>>> very sour. Now I'm trying to get it sour. I'm letting a sponge sour past
>>> the
>>> frothy stage, and I think I'll have to add commercial yeast to get it to
>>> rise.
>>
>>
>> What you are telling us is extremely depressing!
>>
>> Or perhaps you are embarking upon a heuristic exercise?
>>
>> You might try Googling "souring the sponge".
>
> First, I am a newbie baker. My post is parroting back what I've learned, in
> hopes
> to get corrected. There are so many recipes that I really want to focus on
> understanding the fundamentals, so I can go my own way.... not in copying
> someone
> else's bread and failing to understand the wheres and whys and what-ifs.
>
> That being said, yes, it is depressing that I haven't gotten very sour bread
> yet.
>
> Today I baked a loaf (white french) whose sponge was as large as possible (it
> contained all the water of the final loaf, and most of the flour, at 100%
> hydration), and I let the sponge sit at about 75F until the yeast activity had
> slowed down and it smelled sour (about 1 day). Then I added the rest of the
> flour (and salt), kneaded, let it double (6 hours?), and baked it. My fears
> were
> unfounded ... no commercial yeast was needed... in fact, it might have trebled
> had I let it (it was still rising at a pretty steady clip).
>
> Thing is, it tastes like Colombo sourdough, more like soft white french bread
> with a light hint of sour taste, not like those tangy San Francisco bread
> bowls
> that I eat clam chowder out of. So... I guess I have to let the sponge go
> for
> a week next time (I like to overshoot ASAP, and then zero in on center)....
> or
> else I need to find a new starter.
>
> -Mike

Mike,

Many of us build and maintain our starters with rye flour. Before you give
up on your current starter, which sounds like an excellent one, given its'
leavening force, try feeding it rye meal or flour for several cycles. This
will have a subtle, and slightly souring effect, on your bread. Note that I
am not suggesting you make rye bread, just amend your starter.

I think Kenneth mentioned "cold aging" in another post. The technique works
wonders in the flavor department. The improvement is substantial. It is
simple. After you've mixed and kneaded your dough, store it in the
refrigerator or cold basement for at least 24 hours. I often let mine age
for two days. On baking day, let it return to room temp, it will rise
nicely. Shape and bake. Peter Reinhart offers a good discussion the
bio-chemistry of this technique in Crust and Crumb and The Baker's
Apprentice. Both books will be at your local library.

There are a number of good links to explore. One I like is from a very
knowledgeable baker who posts here.

http://samartha.net/SD/

If you decide you need to buy a culture...

http://www.sourdo.com/index.htm

http://www.gemcultures.com/index.htm


Will



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