Paul wrote:
>
> Hello, I have a question for experienced sourdough bakers.
[sequence messed up ;-) ]
> The problem is,
> now I want the bread to be noticably sour, I feel like that is an
> essential element of New York Rye, or Pumpernickel.
Not only that, to make breads with a higher rye content, the acidity is
required to prevent amylase activity (pH needs to be below 4.5, or so)
and get decent loafs.
> I made a Rye starter by feeding whole rye to a portion of my wheat
> starter for a week or so, and then started making bread. The texture
> of the breads is fine, I get plenty of lift and yeasty flavor. But the
> taste... just not sour enough.
>
> Why would a sour starter not have enough sour character?
Acidity is generated mainly by lactic acid bacteria and if it doesn't
get sour enough simply indicates that they are not producing to your
liking ( = non-brainer).
So, to get them going more would be the task to accomplish.
A couple of things:
Wheat starters are different animals than rye starters and (IMO),
growing a rye starter out of a wheat starter is a loosing process. This
could be one source of your issue.
LB's like to grow a bit warmer. I have noticed a significant increase in
sourness very quickly (maybe 1/2 hour difference in rising time) when
rising the dough at a temperature of 93 F or warmer.
The other possibility is that you may be not allowing your starter to
run through it's cycle enough to get sour, like keeping it on the
surface of it's capability.
There is a growth curve:
http://samartha.net/SD/SourdoughDefinition.html#GC
and with that in mind, you will see a peaking with a decline in activity
after feeding your starter. You want to be "over the hill", so to say
with your activity to reach sourness.
You are in the lucky position to grow a whole grain rye starter and
those fellows run forever i. e. can accumulate a great amount of acidity
due to whole graininess (buffering the acid production of the LB's and
maintain a longer period for them to keep producing).
So, what you could do with your existing starter is to
- grow it a little warmer
- grow it a little longer
- grow it until it does not produce more gas
what you would do is, deflate it - get the gas out by
stirring/pressing with a spoon and wait if there is still gas
development. Then, at this point feed again or make dough.
- ferment your loafs longer
what you can do is to let them rise until they start ripping i. e.
start falling apart and bake then on a hot baking stone.
> Are my expectations unreasonable, based on tasting that awful
> sourdough bread from the grocery store?
Not at all - you can get sour bread, it will contract your mouth, curl
up your toe nails and dissolve metal;-). The question is if you would
like this for your bread - probably not.
> I feed my starter pretty regularly, three times a day when I'm baking.
> Too often?
This could be and it depends on a lot of factors, mainly temperature,
starter activity, multiplication factor (starter flour with lots of
organisms versus amount of feeding flour).
> Should I start over and try to grow a new culture? Are some colonies
> just richer with acid-producing bacteria than others?
What seems to matter is the ratio of yeasts versus LB's and this can be
influenced by growing parameters (temperature, hydration) - BUT, since
nobody (please correct me with Google reference) on this forum so far
has had an analysis of what LB's actually grow in his/her starter, it's
hard to say since individual LB strains differ in their behavior. Just
assuming you've got the best and work with it can help a lot.
> I have a home grown culture that's about a year old, that I use to
> bake very good bread.
>
> However, my bread isn't very sour, I'd say there's just a hint of sour
> flavor. This is perfectly fine with me, I don't care for the taste of
> sour wheat bread.
>
> Lately, however, I have ventured into rye breads. I am not trying to
> make Korn-type breads--yet. Instead, I am making the Americanized
> versions that contain quantites of white wheat flour.
This appears somehow to be a mis-conception. Mix type breads i. e. a
certain ratio of rye/white flour mix is very common in parts of Europe,
not to say the main type of breads sold and I suspect what you perceive
as being an Americanized is actually imported, or "brought along".
Pure rye breads have certain characteristics, taste being one of it
which can be blended well as being just one component of the whole
complexity instead of everything.
Hey - have fun playing with your rye :-))
Samartha
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