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jim jim is offline
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Default Aging In Bulk Vs Aging In Bottle

Yeah I have over 30 glass demijohns and a combination of glass and
better bottle 5 gallon carboys.

I wonder why they aren't the recommended route in the UK? Thats the
way I am making wine...

Jim

On Sep 1, 1:38 pm, wrote:
> On Sep 1, 5:03 am, jim > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Patrick, thanks for replying. I am satisfied the glass vs plastic
> > argument has been done to death. What I am talking about is the
> > seemingly huge disparity between what home winemakers (creating fruit
> > wines) are told to do by wineshops in the UK and elsewhere.

>
> > Shop owners here tell me not to bother with bulk aging but to let the
> > wine age and mature in bottle - avoid letting it settle out naturally,
> > but use finings to overcome the problems 'inherent' in plastic
> > containers by removing the need for longterm storage therein. This
> > doesn't have a financial root to me since the wines being made are not
> > from commercial kits, but from scratch.

>
> > One shop owner admitted to me that glass carboys were starting to
> > enjoy a bit of a renaissance in the UK as people followed Canadian
> > kitmakers instructions and went to secondary in glass rather than
> > plastic. This situation befuddled him as he couldn't see any reason
> > to go that route... My real question is why would this be I guess...

>
> > Jim

>
> > On Sep 1, 4:58 am, "patrick mcdonald"

>
> > > wrote:
> > > FWIW, you can find your answers by Googling the archives, but since I have
> > > 10 minutes, here goes...

>
> > > Ageing in plastic cannot be recommended above ageing in glass due to the
> > > density differences between the two. Basically, glass breaks easily because
> > > it is a very dense structure whereas plastic less readily because it is a
> > > less dense structure. Thus, glass is less impervious to infiltration as
> > > compared to plastics. Many people can find many flaws in my allusion, but it
> > > does break it down to straight-forward terms.

>
> > > I also imagine you speak of wine kits, which is the first batch of wine I
> > > made. What I found particularly disconcerting was the use of potassium
> > > sorbate to inhibit the yeast. I found this ingredient readily identifiable
> > > in my kit wine and wished I hadn't used it. When I thought all those
> > > Christmas gifts had been dumped due to poor quality, my father produced his
> > > bottle some 2+ years later and I must say it was a very nice kit wine. The
> > > pot. sorbate was gone and it was a decent kit Cab. Sauv.I've since
> > > recommended that my friends starting on kits skip the pot. sorbate and bulk
> > > age for a period up to 6 months, believing that a juice would stabilize much
> > > more readily than the relatively protein-saturated goo of fresh grapes.

>
> > > In my opinion, the above paragraph throws doubt to the kit maker's claim (in
> > > the US) that kit wines be drunk within 1 year. Read carefully the
> > > instructions and total time to drinking in kits versus fresh grapes or juice
> > > and notice the disparity. Think anyone writing the instructions has a
> > > commercial interest in mind?

>
> > > Age in bulk - there is less O2 exposure per given volume of wine versus that
> > > in a bottle, assuming that corks "breathe". Let's PLEASE not have that
> > > debate again, for the 187th time!

>
> > > Patrick

>
> > > "jim" > wrote in message

>
> > oups.com...

>
> > > >I live in the UK and current recommendation from the home winemaking
> > > > stores in the middle of England (including some commercial wineries I
> > > > know) is to ferment then use finings and bottle as soon after that as
> > > > possible. To back that up, glass carboys are fairly scarce compared
> > > > to plastic carboys and buckets. When I have asked why that is I have
> > > > been asked why I would want the wine to stay in glass to age rather
> > > > than in the bottle and told it is unnecessary and not 'particularly'
> > > > beneficial.

>
> > > > Now I tend to poo-poo this and go with the advice of this group, the
> > > > rest of the world (and CJJ Berry's sage old advice) to at least settle
> > > > the wine out naturally (if at all possible) before bottling and
> > > > maturing therein. I haven't enough personal experience to back this
> > > > up, it just seems logical to avoid fining unless absolutely necessary.

>
> > > > I know the UK isn't widely considered to be a world-class winemaking
> > > > region (though I gather we have, at least once, come first in a world
> > > > winemaking category). I can't help wondering:

>
> > > > # Why is the advice given here so different to that which (I gather)
> > > > is given everywhere else in the world?

>
> > > > # Why would people in the UK be fixating on a fast and less crafted
> > > > winemaking experience if that is the case? Perhaps the market for
> > > > home winemaking is declining here and new winemakers are only
> > > > attracted to make their own if it is very quick and easy?

>
> > > > # How much difference is there in the end product?

>
> > > > # Has anyone done side by side tests to determine the difference in
> > > > result between wines which have been fermented, fined and bottle aged
> > > > vs wines which have been gravity cleared, bulk aged and then bottled?

>
> > > > I would be interested to hear considered opinion or fact on this...
> > > > Best wishes to all of you at this most productive time of year!

>
> > > > Jim

>
> One aspect in fining , especially with reds is dropping out a little
> bit of color , etc. I've made a few kits , and unless it's a kit
> that's supposed to finish with an appreciable amount of reidual
> sugar , I chuck the sorbate....don't like the taste. Keep looking for
> carboys (glass....doesn't breathe ) or demijohns..........they allow
> you to bulk age with th only attention being given is checking your
> traps every now and again.