On Sep 1, 5:03 am, jim > wrote:
> Hi Patrick, thanks for replying. I am satisfied the glass vs plastic
> argument has been done to death. What I am talking about is the
> seemingly huge disparity between what home winemakers (creating fruit
> wines) are told to do by wineshops in the UK and elsewhere.
>
> Shop owners here tell me not to bother with bulk aging but to let the
> wine age and mature in bottle - avoid letting it settle out naturally,
> but use finings to overcome the problems 'inherent' in plastic
> containers by removing the need for longterm storage therein. This
> doesn't have a financial root to me since the wines being made are not
> from commercial kits, but from scratch.
>
> One shop owner admitted to me that glass carboys were starting to
> enjoy a bit of a renaissance in the UK as people followed Canadian
> kitmakers instructions and went to secondary in glass rather than
> plastic. This situation befuddled him as he couldn't see any reason
> to go that route... My real question is why would this be I guess...
>
> Jim
>
> On Sep 1, 4:58 am, "patrick mcdonald"
>
> > wrote:
> > FWIW, you can find your answers by Googling the archives, but since I have
> > 10 minutes, here goes...
>
> > Ageing in plastic cannot be recommended above ageing in glass due to the
> > density differences between the two. Basically, glass breaks easily because
> > it is a very dense structure whereas plastic less readily because it is a
> > less dense structure. Thus, glass is less impervious to infiltration as
> > compared to plastics. Many people can find many flaws in my allusion, but it
> > does break it down to straight-forward terms.
>
> > I also imagine you speak of wine kits, which is the first batch of wine I
> > made. What I found particularly disconcerting was the use of potassium
> > sorbate to inhibit the yeast. I found this ingredient readily identifiable
> > in my kit wine and wished I hadn't used it. When I thought all those
> > Christmas gifts had been dumped due to poor quality, my father produced his
> > bottle some 2+ years later and I must say it was a very nice kit wine. The
> > pot. sorbate was gone and it was a decent kit Cab. Sauv.I've since
> > recommended that my friends starting on kits skip the pot. sorbate and bulk
> > age for a period up to 6 months, believing that a juice would stabilize much
> > more readily than the relatively protein-saturated goo of fresh grapes.
>
> > In my opinion, the above paragraph throws doubt to the kit maker's claim (in
> > the US) that kit wines be drunk within 1 year. Read carefully the
> > instructions and total time to drinking in kits versus fresh grapes or juice
> > and notice the disparity. Think anyone writing the instructions has a
> > commercial interest in mind?
>
> > Age in bulk - there is less O2 exposure per given volume of wine versus that
> > in a bottle, assuming that corks "breathe". Let's PLEASE not have that
> > debate again, for the 187th time!
>
> > Patrick
>
> > "jim" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > >I live in the UK and current recommendation from the home winemaking
> > > stores in the middle of England (including some commercial wineries I
> > > know) is to ferment then use finings and bottle as soon after that as
> > > possible. To back that up, glass carboys are fairly scarce compared
> > > to plastic carboys and buckets. When I have asked why that is I have
> > > been asked why I would want the wine to stay in glass to age rather
> > > than in the bottle and told it is unnecessary and not 'particularly'
> > > beneficial.
>
> > > Now I tend to poo-poo this and go with the advice of this group, the
> > > rest of the world (and CJJ Berry's sage old advice) to at least settle
> > > the wine out naturally (if at all possible) before bottling and
> > > maturing therein. I haven't enough personal experience to back this
> > > up, it just seems logical to avoid fining unless absolutely necessary.
>
> > > I know the UK isn't widely considered to be a world-class winemaking
> > > region (though I gather we have, at least once, come first in a world
> > > winemaking category). I can't help wondering:
>
> > > # Why is the advice given here so different to that which (I gather)
> > > is given everywhere else in the world?
>
> > > # Why would people in the UK be fixating on a fast and less crafted
> > > winemaking experience if that is the case? Perhaps the market for
> > > home winemaking is declining here and new winemakers are only
> > > attracted to make their own if it is very quick and easy?
>
> > > # How much difference is there in the end product?
>
> > > # Has anyone done side by side tests to determine the difference in
> > > result between wines which have been fermented, fined and bottle aged
> > > vs wines which have been gravity cleared, bulk aged and then bottled?
>
> > > I would be interested to hear considered opinion or fact on this...
> > > Best wishes to all of you at this most productive time of year!
>
> > > Jim

One aspect in fining , especially with reds is dropping out a little
bit of color , etc. I've made a few kits , and unless it's a kit
that's supposed to finish with an appreciable amount of reidual
sugar , I chuck the sorbate....don't like the taste. Keep looking for
carboys (glass....doesn't breathe ) or demijohns..........they allow
you to bulk age with th only attention being given is checking your
traps every now and again.