On Jun 1, 9:02 pm, "Dutch" > wrote:

> > Well, that's a very interesting perspective you have, Dutch. Do you
> > think there are any reasons to doubt the argument, apart from your
> > pitiful whingeing that you haven't managed to find any vegan food that
> > you like?
>
> I not only found it unsatisfying after 18 years, as I said, it was not
> serving my family's health either. Those are important concerns you little
> shit, not pitiful whinging.
>

When you say it wasn't serving your family's health, I'm not sure what
situation you're describing, exactly. Is it that some of your other
family members were financially dependent on you, and you were only
buying them vegan food because of your ethical beliefs, and they were
experiencing diet-related health problems? Yes, certainly, those are
important concerns. If I were in that situation I would probably have
consulted a dietitian. The ADA agrees that well-planned vegan diets
(supplemented by Vitamin B12) are nutritionally adequate at all stages
of life and have many significant health benefits. Was the only
solution to your family members' health problems for them to start
eating meat again? Well, that's as may be. I would want to hear what a
qualified dietitian had to say about the matter. Anyway, you made your
own decision about that situation (assuming that I have the situation
right). Perhaps you decided that seeing a dietitian was too expensive
and that you would just start eating meat again and see how that went.
Or perhaps you decided to see a dietitian and she advised you to start
eating meat again. I don't know. In my last post I was not really
trying to make a comment about your individual situation, about which
I obviously know very little. What I did was ask you for your view
about a particular argument. I guess I confused the issue somewhat by
making references to your "pitiful whingeing". If you want to say that
vegan diets are likely to undermine health and that undermines the
argument, fine, let's hear the evidence.

Anyway, I'm sorry you feel you have to swear at me. I really don't
think it's called for. There was an occasion a while back where I was
arguing that going vegan indicates a significant level of commitment
to reducing suffering, and you replied that in your experience going
vegan was no sacrifice at all and that I was a spoiled little punk.
Now you seem to want to say that it caused significant personal
problems for you. If I seemed to you to be suggesting that you stopped
being vegan for trivial reasons and that offended you, then I
apologize. I wasn't really trying to make that suggestion, I just
thought that your concerns about not having a tasty enough diet could
have been overcome with a little imagination. As I say, I know quite a
few vegans and I don't know anyone who finds the diet unsatisfying.
Obviously, you may have had concerns other than taste and I didn't
wish to suggest that any concerns you had were necessarily trivial.

I would have thought it should be possible for us to get on, at least
to the extent of discussing these issues in a reasonably civil way. I
mean, I don't have any personal grudge against you and I'm not trying
to offend you. If you really feel that the way I behave is so
offensive that you can't refrain from calling me a little shit, then
maybe we'd better just leave it. But if you think it might be possible
for us to have a polite conversation, then say so and I'll address the
rest of your post.