On 27 Oct 2006 21:22:20 -0700, "Hannah" > wrote:

>Go eat a chicken!

I'll eat about half of one. I'll start it defrosting right now.

>And while you're at it, try to do some thorough
>research on what kind of life that chicken had.

http://www.aces.edu/dept/nass/kidpag...ken%20barn.jpg

I hope it had a decent life of positive value. Some do and some
don't, but I believe the majority of them do. A lot more of them
would if their consumers cared imo.

>Vegans don't consider themselves to be saints -- we don't pretend that
>we aren't living and participating in a society where animals are bred
>to be killed. We simply don't want to participate in the torturous
>conditions

· Because there are so many different situations
involved in the raising of meat animals, it is completely
unfair to the animals to think of them all in the same
way, as "aras" appear to do. To think that all of it is
cruel, and to think of all animals which are raised for
the production of food in the same way, oversimplifies
and distorts one's interpretation of the way things
really are. Just as it would to think that there is no
cruelty or abuse at all.

Beef cattle spend nearly their entire lives outside
grazing, which is not a bad way to live. Veal are
confined to such a degree that they appear to have
terrible lives, so there's no reason to think of both
groups of animals in the same way.
Chickens raised as fryers and broilers, and egg
producers who are in a cage free environment--as well as
the birds who parent all of them, and the birds who parent
battery hens--are raised in houses, but not in cages. The
lives of those birds are not bad. Battery hens are confined
to cages, and have what appear to be terrible lives, so
there is no reason to think of battery hens and the other
groups in the same way. ·

>that animals are forced to endure for someone to buy a cute
>pair of shoes or eat some cheddar cheese.

At least you are considering their lives to some tiny
extent. No concern for the wildlife who are killed in
everything else we all contribute to, including our
vegetable products? We're all in on that, but sometimes
animal products contribute to fewer wildlife deaths than
vegetable products. Giving that much consideration
goes against veganism, but it's still a significant aspect
of the situation even if you don't like it.

>On Oct 27, 10:10 am, dh@. wrote:
>> On 20 Oct 2006 18:37:57 GMT, > wrote:
>>
>> >I forget to say,
>> >YES PLANTS DO HAVE RIGHTS!
>> >We must take care of our whole planet, even PLANTS!
>> >Respect for any kind of life forms!· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
>>
>> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
>> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
>> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
>> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
>> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
>> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
>> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>>
>> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
>> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
>> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
>> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
>> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
>> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>> being vegan.
>> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·