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TG[_2_] TG[_2_] is offline
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Default yeast/bacteria balance


Mike Avery wrote:
> TG wrote:
> > Are you talking about (futz around) where you store and how you store
> > the starter?
> >
> >

> Having read Dick's posts for years, I'll try to share how I interpret
> his attitude on this issue. Dick is not always terribly straightforward.
>
> Dick seems to feel that many people obsess over the starter. He calls
> it "startermuckery." People who collect dozens of cultures - but use
> them so infrequently that they can't tell the difference between them,
> or really know how this culture should be handled.
>
> In the end, unless you are a microbiologist, it's not about the starter,
> it's about the bread. The starter is just the way you get there.
>
> Are starters different? Sure. Does it really matter? Usually, no.
>
> Spending too much time messing with the starter is usually a waste of
> time. Instead, you would be better served by making bread
>
> Mike



Hi MIke,

I agree that obsessing over a starter, having countless starters and
obsessing over the container for the starter is pointless.

There is a small minority here that automatically assumes that everyone
else is utterly ignorant. Ignorant at a fundamental level about how
things are not just some of the time but all of the time. The irony is
that they have thrown the baby out with the bath water and hold the
exact same view only in reverse, the other side of that exact same
coin, as it were. In refuting the permanent and inherent they have
become equally ignorant nihilists.

I realise that these days there's a growing majority that think that
all things are inherent and yet by contradiction think they are created
by some being a few thousand years ago. But not everyone thinks in
these terms and not all that follow a 'religion' think in these terms.
Moreover there are many so called intellectuals who at a deep level
think in these terms but profess otherwise. The important thing to
remember though is you cannot assume just because someone hasn't been
making sourdough for fifty years that they are utterly and
fundamentally ignorant about how things exist.

Does having countless starters, experimenting with your starters, mean
you are stupid or curious? How is one, new to sourdough, supposed to
know what is truth and what is 'old husband tales' if one doesn't check
out a few things for oneself? Checking things out is quite smart in my
book.

I can fully appreciate Dicky's frustration when he has gone to so much
effort to share information with people to have it thrown back in his
face or just thrown aside along with the rubbish. But If one is really
interested in sharing good information one has to be consistent. One
has to be respected by many.

I remember having a discusion with Samartha he seemed only intent on
'winning' the discussion taking it so far that he contradicted what
he'd said earlier. A new person writes off that so called teacher
straight away as untrustworthy.

You say 'would be better served by making bread'. Isn't treating your
starter properly not part of the process of making bread? And with all
the crap about how else is someone new to sourdough supposed to get to
who is telling the truth without some personal investigation? When you
don't know anyone at all in the 'community' who do you ask to get the
answers you can rely on. Who can you ask 'who is a good person to ask'.
The majority of people these days prefer to put their trust in charm
rather than reason. I respect Dicky for cocking a snook at this. But he
goes too far.

We aren't born with total knowledge of all things. We have to learn.
Some do want to learn. Despite whatever I might say, I always have an
open mind and love to be proved wrong. How else does one learn new
things? You know, if people just came here and followed exactly what ,
say, you suggest Mike, they would be equally guilty of all the things
that Dicky seems to be having a pop at. It's only by testing and
investigation of the 'teacher' that you can then say, 'well, I don't
understand why, but he says it's right so I'll do what he says and then
perhaps I'll come to understand later'. It's taken me a few years to
cut through all, or at least some of the crap and know what matters and
who else knows what matters. I know Dicky is one of these few that
knows, and there's a few others. But since it's this ignorance that
annoys Dicky, wouldn't getting rid of the ignorance by not giving so
many contradictory replies serve this better. If you see Dicky's
'confounding of newbies' as being without some error on Dicky's part
then surely that, with all respect, makes him no more than a troll as
some profess.

I come here with the motivation to help, to learn and hopefully to
dispel some of that deep seated ignorance. It's the ignorance about how
things are that is the real problem not enquiry or holding some bad
information.
Jim