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Chembake Chembake is offline
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Default Problem with formula for "Hard Dinner Rolls"

>I benched the dough for about 20 minutes before I portioned it into 2.25 oz
>balls. The temperature in the bake shop was about 75 degrees that morning.
>The proofing box was set at 80 degrees with 80% humidity. I proofed the
>balls about a half hour before baking them.
> >Your recipe appears underhydrated...you need...at least 60%.

>I agree. I need to rework this formula. It is not "mine." I got it from my
>baking instructor.


It just came into my mind the nature of some restaurant bread flour...I
worked a few times in that situation where the purchased bread flour(
especially overseas) approximates in gluten strength to all purpose
flour and indeed we use a hydration of below 60% for such the range is
54-57% %.. the protein content of that restaurant bread flour was just
above 11%. But not reaching 12%
Another things is in fast paced situation such as in restaurant
bakery/kitchen the bakers dont bother much if the dough is optimally
hydrated or not. They dont want to make a sticky dough but not also
a very firm one.. In most cases the dough consistency is always in the
firm side.

 I love to use MS-Excel for this purpose. I can simply
>change the percentages and voila! The numbers all change accordingly.


When I was a baker in that situation like yours I did not have the
luxury of a computer rather, I just use a pocket calculator to do my
fast computations from scaling up to scaling down of batch weight as
dictated by the executive chef .

The night before we are given the number of pieces of the different
bread to be made and knowing the scaling weight for each unit we
compute to get the total dough weight then Calculate the amount of
flour based such dough weight then we can derive the ratios of the
other ingredients based on the formula ratios we had in our recipe
files.

In bakers percentage, the flour is the base ; that is considered as
100%
Regardless if you vary the amount of other ingredients such as water
that is the only material that you have to change the rest are as is.

3.0 lb Water 55.00%
3.0 oz Fresh yeast 3.50%
5.5 lb Bread flour 100.00%
2.0 oz Salt 2.25%
2.0 oz Sugar 2.25%
2.0 oz Shortening 2.25%
2.0 oz Egg whites 2.25%
Therefore if you change the water to 60% you will use the same ratios
for other ingredients such as for example the salt remains
2.25...etc...
In many cases as the softer dough appears to ferment faster we reduce
the yeast slightly to compensate for such.
Its different if you are using the true percent where varying one
ingredients will correspondingly change the ratios of the other
components .

Anyway true percent is not used much by bakers but in other food
processing systems.

>I'm a little unsure what "Bucky" means. I did a Google search on "bucky
>dough" and got results like underhydraded, overkneaded, dough that's too
>cold, underproofed and overproofed. These web sites told me why the dough
>might be bucky but didn't really explain what bucky means. I can infer from
>your explanation that bucky means that, "it does not form a ball easily

...>.but deforms to an odd shape." If that's true, then yes. My dough
was
>definitely bucky.

Its nice to see a resourceful person who was able to comprehend the
word seldom understood by beginning bakers. Yes if the dough tends to
remain elastic and does not maintain its shape after molding due to
many factors that you mentioned above its considered as bucky. A dough
like that is difficult to mold and usually results in a misshapen
appearance in the finished bread..>

> Controlling the dough temperature is one way to prevent this from
> occurring; warm dough rise fast and difficult to mold...
>One problem I have in the mornings is that I have too many things to do to
>allow proper rise. Maybe I could mix the dough the night before and
>immediately--without allowing any rising--put the dough into an oversized

*>lightly* oiled stainless steel bowl with plastic film over it and
place it
>in the "reach-in" refrigerator overnight. Then in the morning I could take
>it out of the refrigerator and as soon as the dough reaches room temperature
>form the balls and proof. That could give the dough a chance to rise much
>more slowly. Would that help or make the situation worse?


Mixing the dough the night before is one option as it will result in
better tasting bread due to the longer fermentation. Unfortunately most
restaurant kitchen has limited space for such unlike bakeries. When I
was working in a hotel and restaurant bakery some twenty years back
where many things are done such as breadbaking, cakes, and pastries ,
even chocolate items we have to use whatever available space, the
elbows of the pastry cook and bakers often met <grin> and we have to
work out fast necessitating the constant use of short time dough
system. In our breads.
In all those experiences, I never find the bread from hotels and
restaurant to be good tasting ( except when freshly made) if compared
to what I experienced in the bakery where the dough is made slowly and
had ample time for fermentation.


Rich,
Further In those kind of bread made in house
We used the short time dough system like what you are doing right
now. The dough temperature right after mixing was 29 degree C. and the
room temperature was 25 degrees.C
What we do after the dough is mixed its allowed to rest for 15-20
minutes then scaled up and rounded, then given intermediate proof of 15
minutes before final molding.
It is proofed for 30-45 minutes then baked with lots of steam at 230
degree C. at the start; the damper is pulled out halfway then baked dry
until done. Baking time is in about 20 minutes.
... But often times my hydration for hard rolls is in the realm of 60%.
As we are using mostly higher protein bread flour ( around 12-13%)..

A hard roll if properly made should have a slightly thick crispy
crust with soft crumb..It should have very slight chewiness
A too firm roll dough tends to make a chewier hard rolls that many
customers dont like and wont even finish eating one but just
leave it on the dinner plate...
That incident gives the bread baker a food for thought if he is doing
his bread the right way.