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On 13 Jan 2006 18:08:58 -0800, wrote:

The question you've asked in the subject title of this thread
you've started should read, "Can *I* do better?", not "we." Just
one week after your arrival here on a.a.e.v. (Dec 23), clearly
incapable of defending yourself and veganism against your
critics, you started issuing the warning; "Don't start dirt unless
you are prepared to eat some." (Dec 30). The very next day
you went even further and wrote,

"Don't start dirt unless you are prepared to eat some you
mother ****ing bucket of sheet eating asshole. I don't
start dirt but as you stinking mother ****er will soon find
out - have no problem dishing it out to mother ****ing
assholes that start dirt"

My point here is that I'd to see you make a start on that
promise, because so far all you've done is dodge those
"mother-****ing assholes" with this same and lame
warning time and time again instead of actually making
them eat that dirt like you promised you would.

>I do not mind making the meat industry shills eat dirt but it gets
>boring after a while.

Really? Where and how are you making your critics eat
dirt? You've threatened to, and said, "but as you stinking
mother ****er will soon find out - have no problem dishing
it out to mother ****ing assholes that start dirt", but I've
seen none of it so far, and you can take it from me that I
read every single post on a.a.e.v. very carefully. Clearly,
then, you've failed to even make a start, yet now you're
trying to imply you're getting bored doing it. My problem
here is that while you imply "we" should be doing better
in your question contained in the subject title of this thread,
the real question should refer to your own efforts against
your critics, because many of us do do better.

> It is almost impossible to get into a rational discourse with
> the meat industry shills disrupting every thread.

No, that's false. Pearl, Michael Cerkowski, Bob Farrell,
Karen Winter, Glorfindel, frlpwr, Paul Rees and many
others I've failed to mention cut through the very same
critics you face today like butter, and they faced a much
larger and tougher opposition during the late 90's than you
see here now, too. If John Mercer and Ward Clark were
still participating, to name but two worthy opponents on
these issues, you would not be asking, "Can we do better?",
but rather,

"Can I do better?"

>Could
>someone set up a couple of moderated lists similar to these lists?
>
>I propose:
>alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian.moderated
>alt.food.vegan.moderated
>
>Any ideas?

I remember proposing a moderated group once, but
soon realised that the ONLY way to defeat my critics
and promote the proposition of animal rights was to
meet them head on and explain the reasoning behind
my positions as best I could, so I rejected the idea of
using a moderated group and chose to talk it out with
critics who are free to say what they want to say, and
then deal with them on that EQUAL basis.

Open up a bit and explain the principle behind YOUR
reason to abstain from meat; not all vegetarians hold
the same principle, even though the result of each
yields the same result: abstaining from meat, mostly on
ethical grounds. In your debut post you wrote;

"Only after I made my decision to stop eating meat on
moral and ethical grounds did I start considering the
disgusting and unhealthy methods of producing and
rendering meat for consumption."

But that doesn't make sense, because how can one
make THE "decision to stop eating meat on moral and
ethical grounds" BEFORE "considering the disgusting
and unhealthy methods of producing and rendering meat
for consumption."? If you hadn't already considered the
"disgusting and unhealthy methods of producing and
rendering meat for consumption" then from where else
did this "decision to stop eating meat on moral and ethical
grounds" come? That question is central to the purpose
of a.a.e.v., and so far, AS WELL AS this repeated dodge
in the shape of a threat to make your opponents dirt, you've
failed to even try to make your case for why you abstain
from meat on moral and ethical grounds. It's a fair question,
and if you can't quite explain why you feel morally obligated
to abstain from meat, ask others for their reasons, or give
your own if you can and want to.