usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>>>> That's the issue, dummy, and **** you for arrogantly thinking you
>>>>> corner the market on such care for animals.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I hardly corner the market. Veg*n movements are growing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Haha, you wish. Vegans and "serious vegetarians" are a stagnant
>>> demographic and they make up less than two-percent of the US population.
>>>
>>> With the number of serious vegetarians stagnating at less than
>>> 2% according to some estimates, the market potential may be just
>>> too small, though, for a QSR selling to a mass market.
>>> http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?contentid=4949
>>>
>>> You might be so (counter-)culturally isolated that you think everyone
>>> is like your little circle. "Veg*n movements" are self-marginalizing
>>> and exclusivist, not exactly the best things for growth.
>>
>>
>> I see at my local store an "Organic" section,
>
>
> Non sequitur. That's not a "veg-n movement."
>
>> they have fresh squeezed carrot and orange juice.
>
>
> And I bet it's purchased in greater quantity by those who eat at least
> some meat than by those who eat none.
>
>> They have many items that are labeled vegetarian or vegan. This
>> didn't use to exist.
>
>
> That's not a sign of a growing movement any more than "fat free" or "no
> cholesterol" are signs of growing movements. It's just a label used to
> appeal to a segment of the population. Your local store has ALWAYS had
> foods suitable for veg-ns, it's just the marketing to them that's changed.
>
>> The economic discussion you ignored,
>
>
> I didn't ignore it. I was amused by your prattle, but thought it wasn't
> worth dignifying with a reply.
>
>> I had actually hoped you would engage in the differences and the
>> concept that there are many people with values and idealism, and
>> capitalism and socialism in pure forms do not exist. Both need to be
>> tempered.
>
>
> I disagree.
>
>> You appear to love capitalism as a value in itself.
>
>
> I would say that I simply value freedom, and that I see no freedom at
> all in socialism or what you might call "tempered capitalism." Let me
> give you a couple quick examples that show how free markets are tempered
> by consumer demands.
>
By tempered I was referring to legislation and establishments of unions.
They can certainly throttle back "growth". Some legislature helps level
the playing field and protect the greater good, especially environmental
regulations. Even simple ones like old plumbing codes in Chicago and
Boston years ago after initial failures.
Globalization unleveled the playing field. In fact, there is a huge
impact regarding internationalized toxic waste.
But I concede that consumer demands have a huge impact.
> First, people individually or collectively can do business with those
> whose values they share and avoid commerce with those whose practices
> they abhor. That works when dealing with companies one may not like for
> whatever reason, such as Monsanto or McDonald's, or with an entire
> nation, such as when individuals chose not to travel to South Africa or
> invest in companies doing business there during Apartheid.
Individuals do have power.
>
> Second, people can choose whether or not they even participate in a
> given market or choose among its substitutes. Vegetarianism itself can
> be such a check on a given market, such as when someone objects to the
> way livestock are treated. Such people can also resort to alternative
> markets like small family farms, eating only what they hunt or catch, etc.
>
> Free markets allow free people to act freely. Command economies -- fully
> or partially planned -- don't.
I would compare it to Britain at the turn of the century. Or US at the
turn of the century and minors strikes at Rockefella's coal mines. US
troops massacred the coal workers families.
>
>> There are thousands of vegetarian groups on Yahoo.
>
>
> Not a sign of a growing movement. In fact, look at the nyms used on them
> and you'll find a lot of the same people posting to different groups.
>
>> A new successful vegetarian restaurant near me that does a brisk
>> business.
>
>
> Not a sign of a growing movement, just a sign of a successful niche
> business.
>
>> You probably saw them on the news last year
>
>
> No, I didn't.
Thank you for a well written, non insulting reply.