Beach Runner wrote:
> It sounds like e have some Vegans. Are you interested in vegan
> discussion? That would be interesting.
>
> The soy research interests me. The rat studies more than got my
> curiosity, but no dangers have been shown in human populations,
> primate populations, or cultures that eat soy their entire lives.
> Never the less, the research is compelling.



Any kind of research done on rats or any other animals cannot be said
to then apply to humans.

When the monkeys that were tested with ASPARTAME had adverse reactions
including grand mal seizures, that project was scrubbed and the
ASPARTAME was then tested on rats. Since rats have 10 times the
resistance to METHANOL toxicity that humans have, favorable results
were seen.
And that's how we got *that* particular poison on the market.

Soy is bean meal and not harmful.


>
> What are some vegan sources of B12. I've had mine regularly monitored
> (as all vegans do). My blood has great chemistry. When I was a fat
> vegan, I had high lipid and bad profiles. Exercise must be part of the
> equation. I can only wonder how much worse it would have been if I ate
> artery clogging meat.
>


Wheat grown in a manured field will have B 12.




>
> I will respond to anyone with reasonable, non mean spirited arguments.
>
> As far as environmental issues. there is no question that Bush has done
> all he can to let coal produce dirty air, rollback improved mpg
> regulations, and build is he worst environmental president in American
> history.
>
> He also is a failure as a war leader. Where is Bin Laden? After 250
> people died in Iraq he said we won. Over a thousand American's have
> died since. We are deeply in debt, (from a president that took over a
> surplus).
>
> I'm against the terrorists as much as anyone, but Bush has been totally
> ineffective.
>
> He let the navy use sonar that hurts and beaches whales and marine
> mammals He is building roads into pristine forests.
>
> They spent more investigating Monica Lewisnksy than Enron Lay and the
>
>


I'm sorry if you think this is mean spirited but Bush should be
impeached, tried for war crimes and hanged. Hopefully all in the same
day.




>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Challenger put together.
>
> We need change.
>
> and we have two calamities facing the world, global warming and
> anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Our president ignores these critical
> issues.
>
> Did Bush win the election?
> UIC Prof's Statistical Analysis Casts Doubt on '04 Election Result
>
> Chicago, IL 60607 July 4, 2005
>
> By Gigi Wasz
> Gazette news magazine, Chicago
>
> A University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) professor recently
> issued a report calling into question the results of the 2004
> presidential election.
>
> In the 30-plus page report, Ron Baiman, PhD, of UIC's Institute
> of Government and Public Affairs, along with eleven other
> colleagues from other prestigious universities, applied
> quantitative data to explain the discrepancy between exit poll
> projections and votes actually recorded in the November
> election and to understand the analysis given by Edison Media
> Research & Mitofsky International (E/M), the pollster of record
> for the national election.
>
> E/M's poll projections predicted a win for Democrat John Kerry
> by 3%, however, when votes were tallied, Republican President
> George W. Bush was given the win by 2.5%-the largest
> discrepancy in the poll's history. In its post-election
> analysis and report, E/M discredited its own poll projections,
> claiming the official vote was not corrupted and that "Kerry
> voters were more amenable to completing the poll questionnaire
> than Bush voters."
>
> "Using their (E/M's) data tables, we demonstrated that their
> hypothesis of outspoken Kerry supporters is implausible,"
> explained Baiman. "If the polls were faulty because Bush voters
> were shy in the presence of Kerry voters and less likely to
> cooperate with pollsters, the polls should be the most accurate
> in the precincts where Bush voters were in the overwhelming
> majority and where exit poll participation was also at its
> maximum. What we find is just the opposite. In fact, the mean
> exit poll discrepancy was dramatically higher in Bush
> strongholds than in Kerry strongholds."
>
> Baiman and his research team then set out to explain the
> discrepancy between the national exit poll and the official
> vote. They initially targeted random chance or exit poll
> errors. Said Baiman, "There have been several methods to
> estimate the probability that the national exit polls would be
> as different as they were from the national popular vote by
> random chance. These estimates range from one in 1,240 to one
> in 16.5 million. No matter how one calculates it, the
> discrepancy cannot be attributed to chance."
>
> National research shows "exit polling is a well developed
> science, informed by half a century of experience and
> continually improving methodology," Baiman explained. For
> example, E/M samples voters not only for the nationwide exit
> poll but for each state's exit poll. Furthermore, the research
> team found that the same exit polls accurately projected U.S.
> Senate races; both the Presidential and Senate poll results are
> derived from the exact same responders.
>
> "If Bush supporters were refusing to fill out the survey as
> hypothesized, the accuracy of the exit polls should have been
> just as poor in the Senate races as it was in the Presidential
> race," the research team charged in its report. According to
> Baiman, by ruling out random chance and exit poll errors, the
> only other logical explanation would be that the official vote
> was corrupted. In its executive summary, the group's report
> states, "the many anecdotal reports of voting irregularities
> create a context in which the possibility that the overall vote
> count was substantially corrupted must be taken seriously." The
> report concludes by calling for a thorough investigation and a
> "careful, exhaustive recount in key states."
>
> "Our goal is to raise awareness of the exit poll problems and
> to highlight the need for broad election reform," commented
> Baiman. "The fact that Edison/Mitofsky has not released its raw
> data, which would facilitate independent corroboration of its
> analysis, is problematic. The biggest problem is not what
> Edison/Mitofsky has concluded, but the fact that it is sitting
> on its substantive analysis and data and not allowing any other
> independent party to look at it. That this is allowed to
> continue is a national and media disgrace."
>
> According to a website dedicated to investigating the 2004
> Presidential election, www.bushoccupation.com, "To believe that
> Bush won the election, you must also believe: that the exit
> polls were wrong; that Zogby's [a traditionally accurate
> pollster] 5 p.m. election day calls for Kerry winning Ohio and
> Florida were wrong...; that incumbent rule #1-undecideds break
> for the challenger-was wrong; that the 50% rule-an incumbent
> doesn't do better than his final polling-was wrong; that the
> approval rating rule-an incumbent with less than 50% approval
> will most likely lose the election-was wrong; that it was just
> a coincidence that the exit polls were correct where there was
> a paper trail and incorrect (+5% for Bush) where there was no
> paper trail; that the surge in new young voters had no positive
> effect for Kerry; that Kerry did worse than (Al) Gore against
> an opponent who lost the support of scores of Republican
> newspapers who were for Bush in 2000...."
>
> To learn more about the election analysis by Baiman and his
> team of professionals, contact Baiman at .
>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > rick wrote:
> >
> > wrote in message
> roups.com...
> >>
> >>
> >>nemo wrote:
> >>
> >>><dh@.> wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>>On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner
> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
> >>>>>He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
> >>>>>He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs.
> >>>>>He has
> >>>>>stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
> >>>>>He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
> >>>>>His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a
> >>>>>useless news
> >>>>>group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a
> >>>>>vegan life, but
> >>>>>his agenda is sick.
> >>>>>He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I
> >>>>>post
> >>>>>Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.
> >>>>
> >>>> =B7 Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use
> >>>>of
> >>>>wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> >>>>buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> >>>
> >>>What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> >>>>(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> >>>>to avoid the following in order to be successful:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Same old tosh!
> >>>
> >>>In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to
> >>>the death of
> >>>animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever
> >>>by not eating
> >>>the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just
> >>>a wind-up.
> >>>
> >>>So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone
> >>>charcoal, and
> >>>by law just about everything has to be tested using the
> >>>infamous and largely
> >>>ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.
> >>>
> >>>It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like
> >>>yours isn't going
> >>>to deflect us from this and iota.
> >>
> >>
> >>exactly!!
> >>
> >>Useless and etter can go to hell.
> >>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >>Ahhh, feel the typical vegan compassion. You guys crack me
> >>up!!!
> >
> >
> >
> > All right then, go to heaven but just shut yer piehole if you have
> > nothing positive to say.....and the same goes for your girlfriend
> > ~jonnie~.
> >