"Rupert" > wrote
>
>
> Dutch wrote:
>> > wrote
>>
>> [..]
>>
>> > I think you'll find "factory-farming" usually refers to the intensive
>> > rearing of animals. Have you got a justification for calling
>> > mono-culture crop production "factory-farming"?
>>
>> Don't like people turning your pet pjoratives back on you eh?
>>
>
> Well, "factory-farming" is a simple descriptive term.

It carries much more baggage than that.

> It doesn't matter
> very much what it actually refers to, I was just surprised that he
> thought this was a correct application of the word.

I realize that, because you don't fancy yourself as supporting "factory
farming".

Vegans typically have idealized views of themselves.

> Anyway, I intended (correctly or otherwise) to use the word to refer to
> intensive rearing of animals. Furthermore this clearly involves a lot
> more suffering than what he was referring to.

Does it? How do you know? How much animal death and suffering results from
cultivation, planting, spraying, harvesting, storage protection, etc, etc..

>> > Anyway, it's all very well to abuse me for supporting these practices,
>> > but you don't offer any serious alternative to doing so. If you had a
>> > serious proposal for my further reducing the contribution I make to
>> > animal suffering then I would consider it.
>>
>> Stop supporting commercial agriculture, it kills countless billions
>> of animals. Anyway, it's you who proposed that killing animals is
>> to be avoided, why should we now determine for you how you
>> are going to live up to it? Do your own homework.
>
> I'm sorry, can you quote me as saying that buying products whose
> production involved the death of animals is absolutely prohibited? I
> don't think you can.

I see, so it's fine to cause death and suffering of animals when it fits
conveniently into your chosen lifestyle but not when it fits into mine.

> What I do think is that we should make every
> reasonable effort to minimize our contribution to the suffering of
> animals. And I have done my homework on that, I believe that the best
> way to do it is to become vegan. If you've got some suggestions for how
> I can do better I'm happy to listen to them.

A typical vegan could reduce the net amount of animal death and suffering
associated with his or her diet by the introduction of some carefully
selected meat, fish or game, a person who supplements their diet by hunting
or fishing for example. Also a person who also grows much of their own food
*and* consumes meat probably does much better than that typical urban vegan.

Don't misunderstand, I am not suggesting you do these things, I am just
asking you to acknowledge that they are viable choices.

> I'm not altogether convinced that the suggestion "stop supporting
> commerical agriculture" is entirely feasible for me. If you've got some
> ideas as to how I can do it I'm happy to listen to those, as well.

Of course "feasible" is something you define for yourself. I would like you
to show me the respect to allow me to do the same for myself.