Dear BubbaBob,

In the previous post, you wrote:

>The coffee grown today in Viet Nam is of abysmally low quality. Back in
>the '60's they grew some decent Arabicas but now it's all the vilest,
>cheapest robusta imaginable. They actually have to steam it before
>roasting it to get rid of some of its noxious rotten sneaker aroma. Do
>what they do in Viet Nam or at least what they did in the '60's: Use Cafe
>du Monde from New Orleans. I used to see it everywhere in SE Asia. You
>absolutely have to have chicory in the coffee for Ca Phe (not 'Cafe',
>Vietnamese is monosyllabic) Sua Da to taste right.

>>"coffeelover" > wrote:
>>Dear Bubbabob,
>>Your comment about Vietnamese coffee was true in the past. However,
>>after US has lifted the embargo in 1995, with the help of US and
>>Vietnamese overseas, Vietnamese people have gotten back on their feet
>>and done the right thing for their coffee. The quality of Vietnamese
>>coffee has improved substantially since then. Vietnam now is 2nd place
>>in exporting coffee after Brazil. Please give this war-torn country a
>>chance. :-)

>Sorry. It's still the most godawful coffee ever grown, and their prep is
>awful as well (sticks, stones, rat turds, unidentifiable things). The
>last batch of it I tasted was grown last year. I roasted it myself, so I
>know it wasn't staleness that made it so nasty. Check on alt.coffee,
>where the pros hang out and ask about the present quality of Vietnamese
>beans (and then duck <g>). The Arabica production in Viet Nam is only
>about 1% of the size of the Robusta production. In my book, Robustas
>aren't even real coffee, but poor cousins to it. Almost no one in the
>world drinks straight Robustas except Americans.


You may purchase the cheapest type of coffee in Vietnam and disappoint
about it. Like other commodities, everything has its grade. Therefore,
a generalized conclusion about Vietnamese coffee may not be
"koshered" at all. :-).

May I ask what kind of quantity did you buy Vietnamese coffee from last
year batch that you've just mentioned?
How much did you pay for the quantity you bought?
And, specifically where did you purchase that coffee in Vietnam?

According to you, what made Vietnamese coffee taste so nasty?
Is that because the way Vietnamese have grown their coffee? Or because
all the
foreign things that you found in the coffee?

Thank you for the info of alt.coffee.
I will participate in that newsgroup to learn from pros?
BTW, How pro. is pro.? :-)

Where did you get the statistics figure about the production of
Vietnamese Arabica coffee? Please give me some hints or pointers, if
possible.

In your book, you said that Robustas aren't even real coffee. So what
species of Coffeas can be considered and/or classified as real coffee?
May I know the title of this book?



>In the last ten years the government has run most of the Montagnard
>tribes off of their traditional land in order to cultivate it for robusta
>coffee. Those that haven't left are forced to grow coffee at slave wages.
>Tens of thousands of people have been displaced. One of the worst cases
>of ethnic cleansing of the decade and not one American in 100 has ever
>heard about it. The IMF, the World Bank, Folger's, Nestle and Hills
>Brothers are the primary forces behind this. The incredibly low market
>price of VN Robustas has had a terrible effect on subsistence level
>coffee farmers around the world, cutting their profits by about 80%. Many
>have lost their land. A number of fine varietals have disappeared
>forever.

I have heard about the problem of Montagnard tribes, but I don't
think the problem has anything to do with coffee. Is this your
opinions or facts about the worst ethnic cleansing of the decades and
the slave wages?

Let's base on some facts:
1st. Vietnam is 2 place in exporting coffee.

2nd. Production and export volume of Vietnam coffee have decreased
continuously for the last 2 crop years. The highest production was
844,563 tons (equivalent to 14.07 million bags) in 2001 but in 2002 it
was only 702,140 tons (11.7 million bags) dropping 16.8% in comparison
with the previous year. Besides, estimation for 2003 is 600,000 tons (
10 million bags). That means export of 2003 will stand for only 71.04%
of 2001 and 85.45 % of 2002. In addition, the expected production for
2004 is continuously lower, which leads to less export.

Let's play devil's advocate:

>From fact #1, This means a substantial amount of Vietnamese coffee has
been ship around the world every year. And, you said Vietnamese coffee
is vilest and nasty after 60s'. Is that also meant there are a
substantial amount of coffee drinkers around the world who drink the
vilest and nasty coffee from Vietnam?

>From fact #2, by all means, I am not here to advocate VNese
government. Do you have any evidence to show VNese government has run
the Montagnard tribes out of their land in order to cultivate coffee;
In the meantime, VN has reduced their coffee production continuously in
recent years? How could this paradox happen?


>> You may be right about the mix of chicory and coffee will produce a
>> goof cup of Ca Phe Sua Da. Nevertheless, it is a personal preference,
>>and the art of coffee is how to produce good coffee from pure coffee.
>>You are right about the words "Ca Phe".:-). As you may know,
>>Vietnam was under French's domination for 100 years. The word
>>"Caf=E9" is borrowed for commercials' purpose. :-)

>French domination also accounts for the chicory, the use of which for
>adulterating coffee is a peculiarly French thing. I hate it in anything
>else but a Ca Phe Sua Da without it tastes flat and uninteresting.
>I've noticed that now there is a rip-off of Cafe du Monde being canned in
>Ho Chi Minh City. It's called Cafe DeMonte and comes in a can that is
>almost identical to Cafe du Monde's, except for the spelling.
>Bob, formerly of Nha Trang

Your preference about the taste of chicory in Ca Phe Sua Da is highly
respected; even though, it is personal.

Yes, I have seen the copycat, Caf=E9 DeMonte. However, one simply
can't insult coffee drinkers in reading Latin-based languages and not
knowing the difference of brand names. Have you found Caf=E9 DeMonte
vilest, and nasty?

How many years had you been in Nha Trang, Bob? You seemed very
knowledgeable about Vietnam. :-)

Again, every commodity has its grade, you get what you pay for. One
should not deal with the low-end product and assume that the high-end
product of a certain commodity is the same. A general assumption, or
conclusion may not be suitable.

After all, I would like to invite you to try Huong Duong Coffee at:
http://www.cafehuongduong.com , I am very confident that you will love
it.=20

Respectfully,

Coffee Lover