In article .com>,
"Rudy Canoza" > wrote:

> Ron wrote:
> > In article >, "Dutch"
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > "Ron" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > In article
> .com>,
> > > > "Rudy Canoza" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Ron wrote:
> > > >> > In article >,
> > > >> > Derek > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:51:02 -0500, Ron >
> wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > >In article >,
> > > >> > > > Derek > wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:27:59 GMT, Rudy Canoza
> >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > > >> >Scented Nectar wrote:
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> >> Then forced complicity
> > > >> > > >> >
> > > >> > > >> >There is no such thing.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> Forced complicity exists, and if I were to threaten
> > > >> > > >> you and your family with death by starvation, you'd
> > > >> > > >> be forced to comply with the truth of this sentence.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >We disagree, Derek. The choice to comply is still a choice.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Then, if I were to bend your arm up your back in
> > > >> > > a half Nelson, you would have the choice not to
> > > >> > > comply and stand with your arm up your back? A
> > > >> > > person can be forced to comply with brute force
> > > >> > > and coercion if applied firmly enough.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Logical fallacy of a false dilemma.
> > > >>
> > > >> No, not a fallacy; not a dilemma at all.
> > > >>
> > > >> A dilemma is NOT simply an unpleasant choice, or a choice that
> you feel
> > > >> is unfairly constrained to a limited number of options. A
> dilemma is a
> > > >> choice between two PROPOSITIONS that are purported to be
> exhaustive of
> > > >> the truth.
> > > >
> > > > The truth is that there are more options than chili or spaghetti
> --
> > > > skipping the meat and eating later, or skipping the meal and
> eating
> > > > earlier.
> > >
> > > And many others, but there is no dilemma, just an either/or choice.
> > >
> > > >> You continually misidentify dilemmas, and all your claims of
> "false
> > > >> dilemma", every single one so far, have been wrong, because you
> have
> > > >> not identified logical dilemmas at all.
> >
> > Dutch, you only look more foolish by persisting.
>
> No, Ron - that would be you who demonstrates your foolishness by
> persisting. A choice is not inherently a dilemma. You are wrong to
> keep insisting that it is.

Limiting choices always creates a dilemma.

> > Please illustrate in any meaningful way how the three examples are
> > different
> >
> > I can choose chocolate cake or rice pudding (You limit my choices)
> > I can choose to be with you or against you (bush limits my choices)
> > I can choose chili or spaghetti (rudy limits my choices)
> They are all the same: NOT dilemmas.