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In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:
> "Ron" > wrote
> > "Rubystars" > wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
> > > > From your final paragraph, I interpret your statements to mean that
> when
> > > > others (in this case animals) are vulnerable harm that you feel an
> > > > obligation to protect them.
> > >
> > > It's best to avoid causing as much pain and suffering as is practical.
> > >
> > > >If you've been following my conversation
> > > > with Dutch, this can also be argued as the golden rule operationalized
> > > > in that humans fear being unable to defend themselves and treat others
> > > > (animals in this case) as they would like to be treated.
> > >
> > > I think it's part of being civilized not to cause a lot of pain to
> animals
> > > for no good reason.
> >
> > This is typically the crux of the matter in any dispute between two or
> > more parties -- what is deemed as a good reason to do X. The second
> > condition of your position is a requirement for less pain, not no pain.
> >
> > The lack of logic emerges when the inconsistencies emerge. If it is
> > acceptable to inflict suffering on a cow as a food source then it ought
> > to be okay to inflict suffering on any animal as a food source. That
> > would be consistent. Clearly we don't do that so, I tend to view this
> > argument as being an excuse and not the 'true' reason or motivation for
> > the behaviour.
>
> That does not show a lack of logic. The moralistic approach is to avoid
> killing or causing pain to animals *unless* there is an arguably valid
> self-sustaining reason to do so, such as to obtain food. The taboos against
> using dogs, cats, dolphins, chimps, etc as food are culturally based, not
> universal.
Subjective morals. Finally, we are in agreement.
> > My question of you would be what is "a lot of pain"? Your statement is
> > very subjective and that can be interpreted in many ways. for example,
> > if we were to be more humane in the killing of animals (read some
> > animals that are used) as a food source does this satisfy your
> > requirement for less or minimal infliction of pain?
>
> Animal suffering (stress) is measurable and steps can be taken to avert it,
> see www.grandin.com
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