"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dutch" > wrote in message
> ...
> 8<
>> Drawing conclusions without data is dangerous. In reality you (vegans)
>> are
>> compelled to follow the rule that consuming animal products is wrong
> because
>> of "exploitation", a political principle irrationally extended to
>> animals.
>
> Why is irrational to believe that non human animals should be as free as
> humans?
===================
Because the promoters of this idea are hypocites with blood-stained hands
that don't believe the nonsense themselves, as proven by your continued
inane postings, killer.
>
>> > compare veganic to any animal farming
>>
>> You did it again. Compare ALL foods against each other on a level playing
>> field, including plant foods against plant foods, and commerically
> produced
>> plant foods against meat products.
>
> Since commercial meat animals are ineffeciently fed commercial plant
> foods,
> the cds for them are higher IMO.
=======================
You opionion is based on idiocy and propaganda. There are 'commercial'
meats that use no grains or feed.
Most my diet is organic manually harvested
> fruits and veggies BTW.
=======================
BS. Not in the UK it isn't, liar.
The "most vegan" diet would be locally grown veganic
> foods.
====================
Which you don't even try to do. Why is that, killer? Because its mythical?
>
>> > yes, these are seen as cruel as well, bt I think you will find most
>> > literature and time is dedicated to slanging animal farming
>>
>> Because they comprise 99% of the animals used, not because they are seen
> as
>> less moral.
>
> ok
>
>> > animal liberation makes sense - it simply means not exploiting animals,
>> not
>> > using them
>>
>> Plant liberation makes sense too, on a semantic level.
>
> so - exploited animals are sentient, they can suffer like humans
>
>> > issue, and veganism is no more religious than womens liberation
>>
>> Women's liberation had a religious fervor to it 100 years ago, but we
>> have
>> learned that women are nothing less than just people. Now it's a
> mainstream
>> idea.
>
> womens liberation is and was never anything like a religion - the fervor
> in
> it and some religions is just a similarity
>
>> Animal liberation has an inherent characteristic that will never allow it
> to
>> reach this level, animals are not human, animals are ubiquitous, we can
>> never do anything without harming them.
>
> or as is often the case other people - but that does not mean we cannot
> try
> to avoid the excesses
>
>> > Irrelivent because veganic agriculture is real, is done and doable.
>>
>> It's not a credible alternative.
>
> why not
======================
LOL If it were such a credible alternative you fool you'd be eating that
way! You really are just too, too stupid...
Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html
Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm
To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
>
>
> John
>
>
>
>