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rick etter
 
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"John Coleman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dutch" > wrote in message
> ...
> 8<
>> >> False, numbers will *sometimes* show eating "vegan" is better, not
>> >> always.
>> >> "Vegans" "always" like to speak in absolutes.
>> >
>> > There are no real numbers.

>>
>> Yet vegans act as if there were.

>
> We know for certain that animals are exploited in farming to produc
> eanimal
> products. We do not know much about cds. We are compelled to act on the
> certain data and do what we can with the rest.

=============================
You know lots about CDs. You just try to pretend they don't matter, killer.


>
>> Utter nonsense, I hear this argument from vegans all the time, and it so
>> typifies their skewed mindset. Food in the world isn't divided into
>> teams,
>> the vegans and the non-vegans, where you send your "A team" against ours.
>> To be an objective measure all available food must be compared on a level
>> playing field, "Veganic" against Organic" against "Free range" against
>> "Factory Farmed", rice against beef, against tofu, it's all food.

>
> compare veganic to any animal farming

============================
Mythical farming? It doesn't compare fool. Besides, it's not *your* diet.
Why are you afraid to discuss/compare *your* diet, killer?


>
>> > Vegans are not blasting the Innuit (and such) for
>> > their hunting, we are primarily interested in modern farming practices.

>>
>> No you aren't, that's a croc. Vegans whinge about hunting and fishing as
>> loudly as they do about commercial farming.

>
> yes, these are seen as cruel as well, bt I think you will find most
> literature and time is dedicated to slanging animal farming
>
>> > womens liberation, veganism = animal liberation

>>
>> Semantics, what about vegetable liberation? Things don't make sense just
>> because you want them to.

>
> animal liberation makes sense - it simply means not exploiting animals,
> not
> using them

====================
Not to you it doesn't, or you would be killing animals for nothing more than
your entertainment, hypocrite.



>
>> > veganism is not recognised by any authority as a religion

>>
>> It isn't a religion, it just has religious aspects to it.

>
> define religion, then catagories some philosophies as religious or not
> religious based on the definition _ I already posted a link discussing
> this
> issue, and veganism is no more religious than womens liberation
>
>> > irrelivant

>>
>> Very "relivent". The English language incorporates any commonly used
>> word,
>> this does not validate the word or mean it refers to something real or
>> credible.

>
> Irrelivent because veganic agriculture is real, is done and doable.

=======================
Not by you it isn't, so it doesn't matter.

>
> John
>

Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and
pesticides. Animals die.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm
http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html
http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm
http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm
http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm
http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html
http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html
http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html
http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf
http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html
http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm
http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c
http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html
http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm
http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm
http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml
http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html


Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either,
here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton.
http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html
http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/
http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm

To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field,
here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there
can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field.
http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs
/natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf
http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html
http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html


To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and
maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple
dealing with power and communications.
http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html
http://www.towerkill.com/index.html

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