On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:25:06 +0100, "Richard" > wrote:

>"Digger" > wrote
>
>> >I am a vegetarian and have been all my life.
>>
>> Not unless you were never breast fed.
>
>Incorrect.

Human milk, like any other milk is as vegetarian
as chicken soup. You're deluding yourself if you
think you're a vegetarian while drinking it. The
only means by which you can regard or announce
yourself as a vegetarian is to equivocate on the
term and then rely on others not knowing what
context you're referring to. Good luck with that,
but bear in mind that not everyone will be easily
fooled.

>If we have no problem drinking the breast milk of other creatures, you
>hardly have an issue with drinking ones mothers breast milk?

I do if I'm told that milk is a vegetarian food sourced
from lions, and that lion cubs are vegetarians simply
because you deem milk to be vegetarian.

>Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian: same as VEGAN, but also eats eggs and milk products.
>This is the most 'popular' form of Vegetarianism.
>
>http://www.ivu.org/faq/definitions.html

I already know how watered down and meaningless
the term 'vegetarian' is, thank you.

>> >Of course milk is not a vegan food source!
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> >Of course it is a vegetarian food source.
>>
>> Only to those who want to include themselves alongside
>> true vegetarians that abstain from all animal products.
>> There aren't any vegetables in milk, but go ahead and
>> call yourself a vegetarian if it's what you want to do.
>
>Once again, the word vegetarian has nothing to do with vegetables.

And once again, the only means by which you can
regard or announce yourself as a vegetarian is to
equivocate on the term and rely on others not knowing
what context you're referring to.

> There are
>many food categories such as grains, fruit, dairy products.
>
>Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian: same as VEGAN,

No, he is not.

> but also eats eggs and milk products.

And there's your reason why.

>This is the most 'popular' form of Vegetarianism.
>
>http://www.ivu.org/faq/definitions.html
>
>> >Vegetarians have no problem with animal by-products such as milk.
>>
>> True vegetarians that feed exclusively on veg do have
>> a problem with animal by-products and abstain from
>> them wherever they can. Modern vegetarians such
>> as the lacto-ovo or pesco type aren't so concerned..
>
>Exaclty! And these are the most common type of vegetarians.

I'm sure they are, seeing as they're meat eaters anyway.

>> >The animal is not killed for their production.
>>
>> Irrelevant.
>
>Not if that is the principal reason you use to make the choice.

It's irrelevant to your comment preceding that where you
mentioned, "Vegetarians have no problem with animal by-
products such as milk." That the animal is not killed when
providing milk is irrelevant to whether milk can be deemed
vegetarian.

>> >> >The reason I say does not presently is because anyone can change at
>> >> >any time if they choose so you can not emply a life choice.
>> >>
>> >> A lion is an obligate carnivore. It cannot live on veg.
>> >
>> >You are confusing potential with actuality.
>>
>> No. I'm giving you an example of a suckling obligate
>> carnivore that belies your rule that says
>> "No meat = vegetarian."
>
>Yes, they do not eat meat.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it must then be a
vegetarian, simply because it doesn't eat meat. You're
affirming the consequent.

>Vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat meat.

That's partly true, but since suckling lion cubs are
not vegetarians, your rule of logic which asserts
"No meat = vegetarian." is clearly false.

>Different types of vegetarians break this down further. But the majority of
>vegetarians just don't eat meat. For example I know many vegetarians who
>keep cats with a vegetarian diet. Now you're not going to tell me that cats
>are herbivores, yet they have never eaten meat so they can only be referred
>to as vegetarian.
>
>http://www.ivu.org/faq/definitions.html
>
>> >During the time it is a baby the
>> >lion can not eat vegetables or meat. Only milk
>>
>> Then, according to your rule; "No meat = vegetarian" a
>> suckling obligate carnivore cub is a vegetarian. Can
>> you see yet why your rule is unworkable and specious?
>
>No,

You should do, because it's absolutely certain that a
suckling lion cub is not and cannot be described as a
vegetarian, so that example alone shows your rule is
unworkable and wrong.

>see above.
>
>> > So therefore it is not a meat-eater,
>>
>> At least not in the true definition of the word, yet.
>
>But if it is killed, or in the case of the cats above, never fed meat, then
>it never will be!

It's true to say it will never eat meat, but that doesn't
mean to say it's a vegetarian because of that and the
fact it was suckling milk from its mother.

>> No. I lion cub is not a vegetarian, and nor will it ever be.
>
>I am using simple meaning.

No, you're not, and as a result you've tied yourself up
so tightly that you now have to make the claim that a
lion cub is a vegetarian. Way to go ...

>You will have to explain why a creature that fits
>into the category of vegetarian

Lion cubs do not fit into the category of vegetarians.
They, like all other mammals dependent on milk are
sucklings.

>and has never fitted into any other category
>would be called something other than what it presently is.

It's a suckling.

>> >In the future it will go on to assume a carnivorous diet in the wild.
>>
>> That's true, but to say it was once a vegetarian by virtue
>> of it suckling from its mother is absurd. Lion cubs are not
>> vegetarians.
>
>They are when they are,

No, they are not.

>> >> Milk, whether it's from a lion or a human
>> >> is animal fats and proteins, and therefore non-vegan by
>> >> default.
>> >
>> >Exactly.
>>
>> Then we are in agreement and have answered the
>> question contained in the subject title in this thread.
>> Breast feeding cannot be considered vegan.
>
>Absolutely.

Thank you.