On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:53:07 GMT, "John Coleman" > wrote:
>"Digger" > wrote in message ...
>> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:10:50 -0400, "magnulus" >wrote:
>>
>> > Isn't a human an animal,
>>
>> We are mammals by virtue of the female of our species
>> having mammary glands. (thank you, Lord)
>>
>> >so wouldn't human breast milk be an "animal
>> >byproduct"?
>>
>> Yes, and therefore a non-vegan source of food.
>
>incorrect - you need to start with a valid definition of veganism, then work
>from there

Milk is an animal product and thereby non-vegan by default.

>> Human milk and placentas are a non-vegan food source,
>> so when you read any vegan material claiming these foods
>> to be vegan fare, you'll know they're lying.
>
>No those assertions are quite correct.

Then, a person who nourishes himself on expressed human
milk and placentas is living on a vegan diet, is he?

>> One could argue that cows give up their milk voluntarily,
>
>Cows are domesticated imbreeds with little of their original instincts
>left

They give up their milk quite voluntarily, and there's no cruelty
or exploitation involved in relieving them of it, so why isn't it
vegan fare while human milk is?

>- wild bovids do not welcome humans to come and steal their milk.

You cannot say that of all feral cows. There may be instances
where their milk can be taken from them quite easily, being such
docile beasts by nature. Would that be vegan fare?

>I
>doubt cows really volunteer their milk either, other than perhaps to relieve
>the burden.

Exactly. It's very common for cows to make their own way
to the milking parlour for just that very reason; to volunteer it
up so as to relieve themselves. There's nothing inherently cruel
or exploitative about relieving a cow of it's milk, John. That
being so, why isn't it vegan fare if cruelty and exploitation
aren't involved in its production?

>However, since the calves that are taken are caused to suffer by
>this and the mother cow, then that is unacceptable to a vegan.

What if calves weren't taken and made to suffer - would
the milk from its mother qualify as vegan fare?