"ray" > wrote in message >...
> Hi Roy,
>
> many thanks for your prompt reply to my query.
>


>
> Thanks agin for your advice,
> regards Ray

>I have been using a strong Bakers flour recently or at least, since I
> stopped using a prepared bread mix (Lauke) and I have been experimenting
> with different recipes which still haven't even come close. (It's a good
> thing that flour is really inexpensive here, as quite a few batches have
> gone straight into the garbage tin.)

One further comment....before you start you baking trials.
If you had that wastage problem with your products you are probably
trying to duplicate the institutional type of Vietnamese style french
sticks.
I suggest that if in your initial trials are unsatisfactory you really
have to buy that bread improver I mentioned earlier.
From my experience and observations there (Down Under) the Vietnamese
bakers seldom bake their breads in the absence of a bread improver;
therefore if your goal is to simulate their style you will have use
that ingredient as well.
One typical characteristics of that particular rolls is its
lightness...I reckon the bread specific volume is around 8 cubic
centimeter per gram of bread.
If you do it the old fashioned way( no improvers and longer bulk
fermentation) you will only attain up to 6 cubic centimeters per gram.
There is no way you can duplicate that without the bread improver and
feel contented with the results.
With your manual way of dough making and improvised methods I suggest
that you gave an allowance for the fermentation ,proofing . The
vietnamese bakers are using a proofer which has a steam environment)
and the bakery conditions are warmer (than your home conditions) you
will have to adapt that conditions by placing a boiling pot of water
inside a cupboard or a big box where you place your molded loaves to
rise prior to baking so as to attain a humid conditons that will
enable the dough to proof vigorously.
Another reminder if you are using a bread improver with manual dough
methods. Use only half of the recommended amount:Say for the industry
if the australian bread improvers ( usually manufactured there by
Goodman Felder ,Bakels and Pinnacle) are dosed at 10-20 grams per
kilogram of flour ,use only half of that dosage in your system.That is
5-10 grams ,or in a half a kilo gram flour ( 2.5-5 grams).Therefore
whatever the dosage recommended in the packet you will have to use it
by half the amount.
Let the dough ferment for at least an hour before you cut and round
into desired sizes then let it rest for around 15-25 minutes before
you mold them.
If you do not have the fluted french stick pans just place then in
baking trays.
And let them rise fully . Prepare and Preheat your oven to 250 degrees
Celsius
and spray the inside of the oven( or mist) with water. Shut the oven
door, let the temperature rise,then open the door , place the proofed
doughs and spray again the inside with water( in mist) and close the
door immediately.
At that time baking the oven temperature will be in the 220-230
degree Celsius.

> I certainly will follow your instructions to the letter, as the proving
> times and using a "damp" cloth
> are a great deal different to what I have have doing.

This technique is to prevent excessive crust formation which will
hinder the proper moulding of dough and in order to have the seam
seal properly on the bottom without opening during the rising
process.
> The use of steam sounds really promising...with my limited equipment, I
> guess I'll have to see what sort of steam I can generate using a bowl of
> water in the bottom of the electric oven ?.
If you plan to use this technique of generating steam you may end up
with a leathery crust as there is no allowance for the steam
generation to be shut at the latter stage of baking.
You still can use it but halfway through the baking process remove the
bowl of water and let the bread bake in a dry atmosphere.

If your oven had a tendency to brown the crust faster you will have
to reduce the temperature say at 200 degrees C ( when you remove the
source of steam) and continue baking until the bread is done.
The bread should sound hollow when tapped .
Good Luck!
Roy