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Fred
 
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"Fred" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Roy Basan" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Fred" > wrote in message

> >...
> >
> > > What one really needed was some ratios, experience and common sense.
> > >
> > > I got to thinking about it relative to bread making which many people

> view
> > > as mysterious and difficult. When you analyze it, bread making could

be
> the
> > > simplest and most obvious thing to make without a recipe or formula.

> Let's
> > > look at it.
> > >
> > > Let's say that 55% hydration is about normal for a bread dough. That

> means
> > > that the water you use will weight a little more than half the flour

you
> > > use. We can always adjust things later but it's a logical place to

> start.
> > > If you want a 3 lb. dough, then a couple of pounds of flour and a

pound
> of
> > > water plus a little should get the job done. You could cut that in

half
> for
> > > a 1 1/2 lb. dough etc. Personally, I normally like to use about 1/2

oz.
> of
> > > fresh yeast for every lb. of flour. It's adjustable, of course, but

the
> > > ratio should work pretty well for most doughs.
> > >
> > > OK, so lets make a 3 lb. dough. We need 2lbs. of flour, a lb. and a

> little
> > > water and an ounce of frest yeast. Put these ingredients in a mixer

and
> > > you'll get a nice, workable dough that will bake up into a couple of
> > > perfectly fine loaves of bread of a little over a lb. each.
> > >
> > > I like a little salt in my bread to help bring out the flavors. I

> usually
> > > put about 1/2 oz. per lb. of flour. Sometimes I'll put 1/2 oz. per

lb.
> of
> > > sugar to add another taste dimension. These two ingredients added to

> our
> > > flour water and yeast, make the typical hard crusted Italian bread you

> buy
> > > in the bakery.
> > >
> > > Want French bread? Add a little oil. How about between 1/2 oz. and 1

> oz.
> > > per lb. of flour? This adds some "wetness" to the dough so I'd

suggest
> > > cutting back about an oz. of water. You can always add more water as

> the
> > > dough mixes if you put in too little. Bingo, French bread with a

softer
> > > crust than the Italian bread.
> > >
> > > Rye? No problem. Use 1/2 bread flour and 1/2 rye flour. I also like

> to
> > > put in a little molasses. You guessed it, about an oz. per lb. of

> flour. I
> > > reduce the water again by about 1 oz. per lb. of flour. I really like

> to
> > > add the zest of a couple of lemons to my rye bread. It really sings.

> See
> > > how easy this is.
> > >
> > > Whole wheat? Same thing. 1/2 bread flour and 1/2 whole wheat flour.
> > > Semolina bread? You're getting the idea.
> > >
> > > Want to add dried currants or maybe cinammon and raisins or a luscious
> > > Italian bread with garlic and rosemary? Throw them in there. A sweet

> bread
> > > like cinnamon raisin bread usually wants more sugar so I add about 2

to
> 3oz.
> > > per lb. Why? I don't know. It's just a ratio that's worked well for

> me in
> > > the past. If what you throw in is wet like some old dough from

> yesterday or
> > > a sourdough starter, just take out a little water. If it's dry like

> milk
> > > solids or wheat germ, add a little water.
> > >
> > > I tend to hydrate a little more for pan breads than I do for hearth

> breads.
> > > I don't know why. Experience has taught me I like it that way. I

might
> go
> > > up to 60% water by weight or maybe higher. Some breads behave a

little
> > > differently with different levels of hydration but I've found good

> ratios
> > > that work for me and my ovens. Some breads work better with a lot of

> mixing
> > > and others don't want too much. Some want to ferment for hours and

> others
> > > work best with just an hour or so.
> > >
> > > You see, since I'm not making bread commercially, I don't really need

to
> > > have a formula since I don't need today's batch to taste exactly like

> last
> > > month's batch. I just need to understand the basic ratios and then I

> can
> > > create to my heart's content.
> > >
> > > As you begin mixing the dough, experience will tell you immediately

how
> dry
> > > or wet the dough will turn out. It's a simple matter to add a little

> water
> > > or a little flour to adjust the texture of the dough. If you're going

> to
> > > mix it for a long time a little more water will help counteract the

heat
> > > from the friction involved in mixing. The dough will still look

right,
> feel
> > > right and bake right after the adjustments.
> > >
> > > So my suggestion is go out and create some great bread. Armed with a

> few
> > > simple ratios, you can make any amount of dough you like. Armed with

a
> > > little experience you can adjust your dough to your ingredients. Go

> make
> > > some bread. It's so easy you don't even need a recipe. Good cooking.
> > >
> > > Fred
> > > Foodie Forums
> > > http://www.foodieforums.com

> >
> > Hmnn ..... Instinctive baking eh?
> > Well some institutional bakers do that but they are at loss to
> > comprehend if something goes wrong.And many of them inspite of decades
> > of experience still do not progress to the high level of technical
> > understanding of their craft.They have honed their skill but not their
> > overall knowledge.
> > Besides its not as simple as reducing things to the simplest ratio and
> > common sense. You have to find a (structured) relationship betweeen
> > those quantities....and apply that principle in your daily baking
> > chore.
> > You may have known how much a scoop of flour weighs or how many liters
> > is in a a pail of water....But its not enough.
> > Trying to compare baking with cookery where the ever egoistic chef
> > just dump anything at pan according to his whim ( to impress his
> > traineee and staff?)is not that simple.
> > Indeed cookery is an art that can be honed by experience but baking is
> > both science and art and needs both dedicated practice and technical
> > understanding of the methodology.
> > The ingredient interactions in cookery is pretty simple if compared
> > to baking... and yuo just judge the appropriateness of your cookery by
> > experinced eye and sensory assessment of your foodstuff.
> >
> > In baking you have to go beyond that and see things not only from the
> > macroscopic point of view but also in 'microscopic' perspective.
> > In my observation (from experience) many of the best cooks are lousy
> > bakers and conversely...It is just they have different thinking
> > pattern.
> > It is not just about formula but they understand also the mechanisms
> > how thngs work.
> > Two years ago I trained a really talented chef who want to improve his
> > baking skills but his knack of doing things like what every chef does
> > spoils his acquisition of proper baking skills.
> > He hates measurements and do things by instinct and feel....he really
> > applies ratio and common sense ;sometimes the bread or cake comes out
> > good sometimes bad, there is no consistency.He never was able to
> > understand nor could accept that ingredient interaction has a critical
> > part in baking.
> > AFter a few months he backed out....Yes He was able to bake better
> > than before, but not to the same high level with his cookery skills.
> > He lamented that you cannot have the best of both worlds (excellent
> > chef and baker) and you have to specialize on one of them according
> > to your aptitude as your deeply ingrained habits as part of your
> > training in your formative years is difficult to change.
> > So I would suggest that do not be carried away by overconfidence
> > ....that simple idea might work at home as hobby as nobody there is
> > keen enough to judge your culinary creation nor any superior to
> > berate you if your baked goods is not as good as the previous days.
> > Baking can be deceptive sometimes.... what you find as simple could be
> > as illusory as a mirage...
> > Just Keep your feet firmly on the ground ...
> > Roy

>
> Thanks for the pail of cold water. My purpose was to encourage people who
> are afraid of bread baking to try it. As strange as it may seem to you, I
> bake bread this way most of the time and have for a long time. Intuitive
> bread baking is certainly possible and, in fact, easy. Apparently you

want
> to keep it mysterious and I obviously posted this in the wrong place.
>
> Fred
> Foodie Forums
> http://www.foodieforums.com
>
>
>


I don't think any of you understood me. I'm not knocking formulas. I'm
simply explaining how I developed most of mine and I'm encouraging others to
do the same. I hate the concept of making baking mysterious.

After all, what is baking? It is flour and water and heat in different
proportions with different things added to it. The whole panoply of baked
products vary sometimes only very subtely from one another in terms of
ingredients or ratios or methods. You boil a dough to get that bagel crust.
If you don't, you get a bialy with a softer crust. Completely different
product, same ingredients. The difference is a few seconds in boiling
water. I understand.

Sorry to disagree but there is absolutely nothing wrong with experimentation
in baking. Every forumula was developed from an experiment. All
experimentation doesn't yield expected results. Some experimentation yields
magic. No experimentation, for me at least, yields boredom. Sure, I can
knock out Italian loaf after Italian loaf with all the consistency one could
request. I have books full of commercial bread formulas. Most of them have
to be adjusted anyway for ingredients, equipment and even ambient humidity.
Heck my basic Italian formula has a 3 oz.. more water in the Winter than it
does in the Summer. Who cares? I'd rather see what happens if I put this
in, or shape it this way, or ferment it this long or lower an oven rack.

At the moment I have access to a programmable oven. It's a kick to play
around with steam and program in changes in temperature and humidity. I
like to call it the dial-a-crust oven because that's what you can do with it
among other things. It's also very eye-opening. It's always interesting.
I rarely get bad bread. I've already learned what makes bad bread and it's
reasonably easy to avoid those things.

I've made some awful breads and some brilliant ones. Nothing wrong with
that. Even a major league player never bats 1.000. In fact they rarely get
a third of the way there. It's just flour, water and leavening, after all.
The possibilies past that bit of simplicity are endless. Why not try a few
and see what happens? It can only make a more accomplished baker out of
you. OK, the soap box is yours. I'm tuning out.

Fred
Foodie Forums
http://www.foodieforums.com