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Posted to alt.fan.jai-maharaj,soc.culture.indian,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion,soc.culture.usa
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The First Vegetarian Thanksgiving - Article by Ryan Berry
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 12:42:34 -0700, Goo wrote:
..
>On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:02:17 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 11:54:24 -0700, Goo admitted:
>>
>>>On Wed, 09 Oct 2013 14:40:08 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 17:43:16 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>.
>>>>>On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 18:18:38 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 04 Oct 2013 14:03:21 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>On Fri, 04 Oct 2013 16:04:04 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 18:35:33 -0700, Goo disagreed with himself:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 03 Oct 2013 19:00:16 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 13:23:56 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:22:25 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 19:55:18 GMT, and/or www.mantra.com/jai
>>>>>>>>>>>>(Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The First Vegetarian Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>[ Subject: The First Vegetarian Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>[ From:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>[ Date: Sunday, November 28, 2004
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The First Vegetarian Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>By Rynn Berry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://all-creatures.org/articles/tgveg-rb.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>[Ed.] "But it's tradition," is the cry when vegetarians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>wonder why killing an animal should make Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>special.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never known anyone to say that. We could consider that if humans had
>>>>>>>>>>>>never begun to eat meat none of us who are alive today would be, and possibly no
>>>>>>>>>>>>humans would exist anywhere on the planet. We could also consider that animals
>>>>>>>>>>>>raised for food aren't simply "killed" as the animals in crop fields are, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>instead they experience whatever life they do, some of them good and some of
>>>>>>>>>>>>them not good, ONLY because humans raise them for food. We can also consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>that the people who eat meat contribute to the lives of turkeys etc, while
>>>>>>>>>>>>people who are vegans don't contribute to any lives for any livestock animals.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Meaningless. Their "experiencing" of life is not morally considerable.
>>>>>>>>>>> It has no moral importance at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is what I meant by you having no case, ****wit. While what you
>>>>>>>>>>>wrote is true, it is trivial. It has no bearing on the ethical decision
>>>>>>>>>>>of whether or not we *ought* to raise animals for food. It offers no
>>>>>>>>>>>clarity or ethical guidance at all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you feel that way about considering the killing as well as you do
>>>>>>>>>>about considering their lives, Goo?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Because the animal was alive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ONLY because it was raised for food Goob.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Irrelevant, of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Less irrelevant than the fact that they're killed, Goob. Other than because
>>>>>>it works against elimination, why are you so desperate that people don't
>>>>>>consider their lives as being as significant as their deaths Goober? Is that the
>>>>>>only reason for your desperate position, Goo?
>>>>>
>>>>>No
>>>>
>>>> What other reason(s) do you think you have, Goo?
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>up to the point it was killed, ****wit.
>>>>>>>>>*Once* it is alive, then its life has moral meaning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"the "getting to experience life" deserves NO moral
>>>>>>>>consideration, and is given none" - Goo
>>>>>
>>>>>Right. "getting to experience life", of course, means "coming into
>>>>>existence." It does *NOT* mean continued existence
>>>>
>>>> Try to explain how you think something can get to experience life without
>>>>continuing to exist Goo. Go:
>>>>...
>>>>>you don't have any hope of beating me.
>>>>
>>>> You outstupided yourself AGAIN unless you can explain how you think
>>>>something can get to experience life without continuing to exist Goob. You also
>>>>outstupid yourself when you are dishonest which is the majority of the time. I
>>>>beat you when those things happen and I beat you every time I challenge you to
>>>>explain some things you can't explain, you lame Googoots. I'll beat you nineteen
>>>>times again now by challenging you to try:
>>>>
>>>>1. explaining exactly which emotions animals can and
>>>> can not experience.
>>>>
>>>>2. explaining how anything could have inherent rights.
>>>>
>>>>3. providing any opposition at all to "AR".
>>>>
>>>>4. explaining why nothing has ever benefitted from living.
>>>>
>>>>5. explaining why we should only consider killing but not life.
>>>>
>>>>6. explaining what or whom--other than those who are
>>>> disturbed by the fact that humans eat meat--would benefit
>>>> from their elimination objective.
>>>>
>>>>7. describing any emotion(s) through language.
>>>>
>>>>8. explaining any way(s) in which people could contribute to
>>>> better lives for food animals.
>>>>
>>>>9. explaining why one emotion is more difficult to experience
>>>> than another.
>>>>
>>>>10. explaining how any difference between the ability of humans and
>>>> other animals to experience emotions, is a moral issue.
>>>>
>>>>11. explaining the qualitative differences between anger and
>>>> disappointment, if there are any.
>>>>
>>>>12. demonstrating an ethically equivalent or superior alternative
>>>> to the elimination of domestic animals.
>>>>
>>>>13. explaining what it is that makes animals appear to be experiencing
>>>> certain emotions, under conditions which could easily trigger those
>>>> particular emotions, if it is not those particular emotions.
>>>>
>>>>14. explaining how any emotions could be dependant on language.
>>>>
>>>>15. explaining the kind of stimulus-response "anticipation" you can get
>>>> from a dog.
>>>>
>>>>16. explaining what--if anything at all--he has learned from experience
>>>> with animals.
>>>>
>>>>17. explaining what could be more important to animals raised for food
>>>> than the experiencing of their lives.
>>>>
>>>>18. describing any tests which have been done to test for self-awareness
>>>> in dogs.
>>>>
>>>>19. explaining why dogs jump up above tall grass so they can see, if
>>>> "They are not aware that they can see."
>>>
>>>admitted
>>
>> You admit I beat you nineteen times just then, Goo.
>>
>>>>>>>>>I get this, and you don't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you think you do then try explaining how you think you disagree with
>>>>>>>>yourself about it Goo. Go:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I do
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then try explaining how you think you disagree with yourself about it Goo.
>>>>>>GO:
>>>>>
>>>>>I have explained exactly how coming into existence - "getting to
>>>>>experience life", LOL - is not a benefit, and you have *agreed* with it,
>>>>>*Gloo*. You were *forced* to agree with it
>>>>
>>>> Then why can't you force it now Goober? Even though you can't force it, try
>>>>to present something to at least consider, Goo. Go:
>>>
>>>I
>>
>> Try to present something to at least consider, Goo. Go:
>
>Done.
That's such a blatant lie you can't even try to pretend it's true, Goo.
"I am not a man." - Goo
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