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Posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,alt.food.vegan,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,rec.boats,alt.atheism,can.politics
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Beef produced and eaten, and not a single steer or cow "got to experience life"
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 13:57:38 -0700, Goo wrote:
..
>On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:33:56 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:40:22 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>.
>>>On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:45:22 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:47:22 -0700, Goo agreed:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:23:52 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:57:51 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:10:26 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:55:36 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:54:49 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 12:12:42 -0700, Goo idiotically wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 13:45:46 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:47:47 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 18:45:01 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:34:33 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's here, ****wit: laboratory produced meat grown in a container. No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cattle were brought into existence and "got to experience life" in order
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to produce this beef.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,7945932.story
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>By Ricardo Lopez
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>August 5, 2013, 8:29 a.m.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>For a $330,000 burger, taste testers thought the flavor fell a little flat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The hefty price tag, however, wasn't for some fancy, rare cut of meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>In fact, this meat had never so much as mooed in a previous life: It was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>beef grown in a laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dutch scientists Monday unveiled their ambitious research project, years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the making, with a public taste test of their cultured beef in London.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Volunteer tasters sampled hamburger made from the lab-grown beef made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>from stem cells. Scientists hope it can one day alleviate a food crisis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as the world's population swells and help combat climate change.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>To make the meat, scientists at Maastricht University in the Netherlands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>used muscle stem cells from two organic cows and combined them with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nutrient solution. The muscle cells then grew into strands of meat. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>takes 20,000 strands to make a 5-ounce burger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Taste testers said the meat lacked the fat of a conventional burger,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>making the taste a little underwhelming, the Associated Press reported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So, it's not quite ready for market, but this could soon be the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*all* meat is produced. It would be cheaper and less environmentally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>destructive than raising livestock. If it comes to pass, then billions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and billions and eventually trillions of animals will never "get to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>experience life" - their lives will be prevented, and "vegans" won't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>have anything to do with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm not saying it will come to pass, but if it does, the fact that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>trillions of animals will never exist and "get to experience life" will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>be meaningless. No one will care.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've agreed with that the whole time Goob and I've mentioned the eventual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>situation you presented an example of too. But that doesn't prevent millions of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>animals from benefitting from lives of positive value NOW, in the past, and in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the foreseeable future Goots. And nothing prevents me or anyone else who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>actually can appreciate decent AW over elimination from appreciating the fact
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that they do, have and will, Goo. A similar example you MIGHT but probably can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>relate to is with horses Goob. There are a lot less horses now than there would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>be if cars still had not been invented. That doesn't matter Goober, but it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>matter if they DID exist as it did matter when they did exist. We, so far, are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in a similar situation with food animals...they exist now but in the future they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>eventually will no longer. We are in a position to appreciate their lives more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than the lives of working horses though, if having to work as the horses did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reduced the quality of life for them so that a higher percentage of their lives
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>were of negative value because of the labor they had to perform. Of course each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>situation would be different Goo and some horses no doubt enjoyed their work and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>having a purpose, while others were overworked and suffered from the abuse. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything like that is necessarily over the heads of people who can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>appreciate when any domestic animals have lives of positive value:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"I don't believe the distinction between "lives of positive value" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"lives of negative value" means anything." - Rupert
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"There is no "consideration" to be given." - Goo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>much MUCH less can they/YOU appreciate a distinction between when they do and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>when they do not, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, that's a lie
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Your're lying again since you can't appreciate a distinction Goob. You can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>even appreciate that many domestic animals do experience lives of positive value
>>>>>>>>>>>>Goober, so you certainly can't comprehend any sort of distinction between when
>>>>>>>>>>>>they do and when they don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>animals "getting to experience life", as you so wretchedly put it
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have proven without doubt that you can't think of a better way to put it
>>>>>>>>>>>>Goots, nor even anywhere near as good. That has been proven by you and is not in
>>>>>>>>>>>>dispute, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Existence, *Gloo*. That's all
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No Goober. Rocks exist but don't experience life, and it seems even someone
>>>>>>>>>>as remarkably stupid as you should be able to appreciate that obvious fact Goob.
>>>>>>>>>>But since you haven't been able to learn to appreciate that obvious example,
>>>>>>>>>>here are some more to see if you can ever learn to appreciate the stupidity of
>>>>>>>>>>your suggestion:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>trains exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>planes exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>automobiles exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>mountains exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>rivers exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>iceburgs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>toasters exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>phones exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>dead people exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>bathtubs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>yoyos exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>microwave ovens exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>sox exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>toilets exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>light bulbs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>hamburgers exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>hot dogs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>etc..................................... ................., Goo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>something being important to or a "benefit" to them is
>>>>>>>>>just . bullshit
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To things that simply exist it is Goots. For things that exist and have the
>>>>>>>>benefit of experiencing life it's more than "just . bullshit" to them, Goo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"getting to experience life" is not a benefit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It clearly appears to be, and you can't even pretend to try to explain what
>>>>>>you want people to think prevents it from being one Goob. You can't, you have
>>>>>>consistently proven that you can't, and that is not in dispute, Goo.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, and it isn't.
>>>>
>>>> No you can't and it isn't in dispute Goob. The only way you could even try
>>>>to pretend to dispute it would be for you to try telling us what you want people
>>>>to think is preventing it from being to your son's advantage that he's still
>>>>alive, but you can't even make an attempt, Goo.
>>>
>>>Existence doesn't improve welfare versus never existing
>>
>> How did you make that comparison, Goo?
>
>No one makes it, *Gloo* - that's the very reason why "getting to
>experience life" - aka existence - is not a benefit versus never existing.
How did you make that comparison, Goo?
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