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Posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.philosophy,alt.food.vegan,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,rec.boats,alt.atheism,can.politics
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Beef produced and eaten, and not a single steer or cow "got to experience life"
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 18:40:22 -0700, Goo wrote:
..
>On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 18:45:22 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:47:22 -0700, Goo agreed:
>>
>>>On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 17:23:52 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:57:51 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>.
>>>>>On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 20:10:26 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 13:55:36 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 15:54:49 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 12:12:42 -0700, Goo idiotically wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 13:45:46 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:47:47 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 18:45:01 -0400, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Mon, 05 Aug 2013 11:34:33 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's here, ****wit: laboratory produced meat grown in a container. No
>>>>>>>>>>>>>cattle were brought into existence and "got to experience life" in order
>>>>>>>>>>>>>to produce this beef.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,7945932.story
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>By Ricardo Lopez
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>August 5, 2013, 8:29 a.m.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>For a $330,000 burger, taste testers thought the flavor fell a little flat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The hefty price tag, however, wasn't for some fancy, rare cut of meat.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>In fact, this meat had never so much as mooed in a previous life: It was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>beef grown in a laboratory.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dutch scientists Monday unveiled their ambitious research project, years
>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the making, with a public taste test of their cultured beef in London.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Volunteer tasters sampled hamburger made from the lab-grown beef made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>from stem cells. Scientists hope it can one day alleviate a food crisis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>as the world's population swells and help combat climate change.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>To make the meat, scientists at Maastricht University in the Netherlands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>used muscle stem cells from two organic cows and combined them with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>nutrient solution. The muscle cells then grew into strands of meat. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>takes 20,000 strands to make a 5-ounce burger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Taste testers said the meat lacked the fat of a conventional burger,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>making the taste a little underwhelming, the Associated Press reported.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>So, it's not quite ready for market, but this could soon be the way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>*all* meat is produced. It would be cheaper and less environmentally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>destructive than raising livestock. If it comes to pass, then billions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>and billions and eventually trillions of animals will never "get to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>experience life" - their lives will be prevented, and "vegans" won't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have anything to do with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm not saying it will come to pass, but if it does, the fact that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>trillions of animals will never exist and "get to experience life" will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>be meaningless. No one will care.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've agreed with that the whole time Goob and I've mentioned the eventual
>>>>>>>>>>>>situation you presented an example of too. But that doesn't prevent millions of
>>>>>>>>>>>>animals from benefitting from lives of positive value NOW, in the past, and in
>>>>>>>>>>>>the foreseeable future Goots. And nothing prevents me or anyone else who
>>>>>>>>>>>>actually can appreciate decent AW over elimination from appreciating the fact
>>>>>>>>>>>>that they do, have and will, Goo. A similar example you MIGHT but probably can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>relate to is with horses Goob. There are a lot less horses now than there would
>>>>>>>>>>>>be if cars still had not been invented. That doesn't matter Goober, but it would
>>>>>>>>>>>>matter if they DID exist as it did matter when they did exist. We, so far, are
>>>>>>>>>>>>in a similar situation with food animals...they exist now but in the future they
>>>>>>>>>>>>eventually will no longer. We are in a position to appreciate their lives more
>>>>>>>>>>>>than the lives of working horses though, if having to work as the horses did
>>>>>>>>>>>>reduced the quality of life for them so that a higher percentage of their lives
>>>>>>>>>>>>were of negative value because of the labor they had to perform. Of course each
>>>>>>>>>>>>situation would be different Goo and some horses no doubt enjoyed their work and
>>>>>>>>>>>>having a purpose, while others were overworked and suffered from the abuse. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>everything like that is necessarily over the heads of people who can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>appreciate when any domestic animals have lives of positive value:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"I don't believe the distinction between "lives of positive value" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>"lives of negative value" means anything." - Rupert
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"There is no "consideration" to be given." - Goo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>much MUCH less can they/YOU appreciate a distinction between when they do and
>>>>>>>>>>>>when they do not, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>No, that's a lie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your're lying again since you can't appreciate a distinction Goob. You can't
>>>>>>>>>>even appreciate that many domestic animals do experience lives of positive value
>>>>>>>>>>Goober, so you certainly can't comprehend any sort of distinction between when
>>>>>>>>>>they do and when they don't.
>>>>>>>>>>...
>>>>>>>>>>>animals "getting to experience life", as you so wretchedly put it
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You have proven without doubt that you can't think of a better way to put it
>>>>>>>>>>Goots, nor even anywhere near as good. That has been proven by you and is not in
>>>>>>>>>>dispute, Goo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Existence, *Gloo*. That's all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No Goober. Rocks exist but don't experience life, and it seems even someone
>>>>>>>>as remarkably stupid as you should be able to appreciate that obvious fact Goob.
>>>>>>>>But since you haven't been able to learn to appreciate that obvious example,
>>>>>>>>here are some more to see if you can ever learn to appreciate the stupidity of
>>>>>>>>your suggestion:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>trains exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>planes exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>automobiles exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>mountains exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>rivers exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>iceburgs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>toasters exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>phones exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>dead people exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>bathtubs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>yoyos exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>microwave ovens exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>sox exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>toilets exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>light bulbs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>hamburgers exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>hot dogs exist but don't experience life, Goo.
>>>>>>>>etc....................................... ..............., Goo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>something being important to or a "benefit" to them is
>>>>>>>just . bullshit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To things that simply exist it is Goots. For things that exist and have the
>>>>>>benefit of experiencing life it's more than "just . bullshit" to them, Goo.
>>>>>
>>>>>"getting to experience life" is not a benefit
>>>>
>>>> It clearly appears to be, and you can't even pretend to try to explain what
>>>>you want people to think prevents it from being one Goob. You can't, you have
>>>>consistently proven that you can't, and that is not in dispute, Goo.
>>>
>>>No, and it isn't.
>>
>> No you can't and it isn't in dispute Goob. The only way you could even try
>>to pretend to dispute it would be for you to try telling us what you want people
>>to think is preventing it from being to your son's advantage that he's still
>>alive, but you can't even make an attempt, Goo.
>
>Existence doesn't improve welfare versus never existing
How did you make that comparison, Goo?
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