Julie Bove > wrote:

: "Todd" > wrote in message
: ...
: > On 03/18/2013 12:21 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
: >> "Todd" > wrote in message
: >> ...
: >>> On 03/17/2013 09:29 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
: >>>> What's unnatural? Are you calling vegetarianism unnatural?
: >>>
: >>> Yes. Our eyes on the front of our heads, not the sides.
: >>> We can not eat grass. We are born virtually blind and
: >>> helpless. We can not run 30 minutes after being born.
: >>> We do not have two stomaches. Yada, Yada, Yada.
: >
: >> We can eat grass.
: >
: > If you mean can we swallow grass, then yes. That is not what I meant.
: > We can not break down the cellulose like a real herbivore. We
: > need two stomaches for that.
: >
: >> One of my customers bought bags of grass seed on a
: >> regular basis to be used for sprouts. He ate them.
: >
: > Sprouts and full grown grass are two different things. We can
: > eat (digest) sprouts. They haven't developed the cellulose
: > to the point where they are just bran to us.
: >
: >> Granted, most people
: >> don't eat grass but we could.
: >
: > Yes we could swallow it. It is called "bran" to an omnivore.
: > We can't digest it.
: >
: >> And no, we don't have two stomachs. Are you
: >> comparing us to cows?
: >
: > Cow have two stomachs, so they can digest cellulose. We
: > can't. You missed the point.

: You do know that cellulose is added to a lot of food. Right? And what does
: that have to do with vegetarianism? It doesn't!

: >> Because cows can eat corn too.
: >
: > True. And it is really bad for them. It gives them ulcers [1]
: > [2] [3]. It is unnatural to feed them corn. That is why feed
: > lots have to race to fatten up cows before they kill them.
: > We are not carrion eaters.

: Cite that corn gives them ulcers? And we certainly can be carion eaters.
: Ever watch Honey
: Boo Boo? Seen those foreign films where the natives find a dead animal and
: butcher it?
: >
: >> Are you saying that
: >> we can't eat corn?
: >
: > We can. We shouldn't. It is like eating pure sugar. I
: > believed that stupid food pyramid and their healthy
: > carbohydrates monkey shine. I truly believe it is what
: > burned out my beta cells. I know we disagree on this subject.

: No. It's not like pure sugar at all. And yes, we very much do disagree.
: >
: >> These days cows eat all sorts of things. Well, some
: >> cows anyway.
: >
: > They use to feed dead cows back to cows. Gross. Cows are
: > not cannibals. Gave them Mad Cow disease. Hmmm.
: > Really thought that one out really well, didn't they.

: Oh really? Cite for that, then! You make all these off the wall claims and
: just expect us to belive what you say!

: >>> We are "omnivores", like bears. Except that bears are
: >>> carrion eaters, unless you think hot dogs are carrion,
: >>> then we are just like bears.
: >>
: >> No we're not.
: >
: > Both humans and bears are omnivores. Neither one of us
: > are herbivores as neither one of us can digest grass
: > (cellulose). I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

: Cite that the definition of an herbivore means digesting grass?
: >
: > Their are four basic type of mammals:
: > herbivores
: > omnivores
: > carnivores
: > carrion eaters
: >
: > We and bears are omnivores. Bears are also carrion eaters.
: > Unless you think hot dogs are carrion, then ...

: I know what carion is and some humans do in fact eat it.

: >> Just because we *can* eat things doesn't mean that we should.
: >
: > 100% agree.
: >
: >>>
: >>> By the way, lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causes neuropathy.
: >>> See what I am getting at?
: >>>
: >> Nope. Except that you seem very misguided on a lot of things.
: >
: > Play nice with the other children in the sand box.

: Well, you're not really playing nice. Making all kinds of outlandish claims
: as though they were fact.
: >
: >> Cite for
: >> lack of Acetyl L-Carnitine causing neuropathy?
: >
: > Absolutely! [4] [5] Could this have been a contributing
: > factor to your neuropathy? Vegetarianism causes all kinds
: > of nerve damage if you are not careful to supplement
: > and/or cheat on your diet (or eat figs). [6] [7] [8] [9]

: That's not a cite. You put a quote from some place and didn't even
: attribute to where it came from. I was a vegetarian for many years and had
: no nerve damage. I know plenty of vegetarians now with no nerve damage.
: >
: >>
: >>> Vegetarianism is unnatural. We are not cows or horses.
: >>
: >> It's not unnatural for me or all of the other vegetarians and vegans on
: >> the
: >> face of this earth.
: >
: > Oh yes, it is unnatural. So is space travel. It is up to the beholder
: > to judge whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I am not
: > trying to offend you.

: Now you say that space travel is unnatural? This is really getting
: laughable. And you really are offending my sensibilities with all of this
: clap trap.
: >
: > If you are a strict, true vegetarian, meaning you do not consume
: > any animal nutrition (insects or meat [and fish is meat]) or use
: > science to synthesize what you are missing, you will get very ill and risk
: > death. I would posit anything that hurts someone is a bad thing.

: Totally untrue! Just freaking totally!
: >
: > Some unnatural things are not bad things, like taking metformin.
: >
: > We can survive as pure carnivores, as do the Inuits [11], but we can
: > not survive as pure vegetarians.

: We could not survive like the Intuits. Few people in this country would eat
: what they ate. And it is not available to us.
: >
: > That being said, very few vegetarians really are. They are just
: > picky eaters. They eats bugs (figs [12] and bugs in their grains),
: > milk, eggs, fish, chicken and on and so forth.

: Nonsenese! Please, please quit your lying! Please! Vegetarians can eat
: dairy and eggs. Vegans do not. Vegans do not use any animal products. Not
: even leather. Vegetarians can use leather. Not all do.
: >
: > "Some" vegetarians do it to condescend. Makes them feel good about
: > themselves without actually making the effort of being good people.
: > Most vegetarians I know are doing it for their health -- to each his own.
: > Hope they supplement and/or cheat on their diet. A lot of
: > the meat we consume (not me) is pretty unhealthy. Not because
: > meat is unhealthy, it is not, but because of what is in the meat
: > and the unhealthy conditions it is raised under.

: You are really insulting a lot of people by saying that.

: >>>> What's a fat suite?
: >>>
: >>> It is a rubber suite that makes you look fat. Pretty
: >>> realistic looking too. Lots of bigotry against fat people
: >>> out there.
: >
: >> Those fat suits that I have seen make the person look grossly obese. I
: >> have
: >> never been grossly obese. I have been fat. I am fat. I have been thin.
: >> I
: >> have been very thin. Some of the most cruel remarks that people made to
: >> and
: >> about me came about when I was thin.
: >
: > Back before the television, I have seen adds for weight gain products
: > that made big fun of skinny girls [13]. They implied a skinny girl
: > could not get married, among other things.

: Uh huh.
: >
: >> As a fat person, I have only ever had
: >> one person make comments about my weight. That person makes nasty
: >> comments
: >> to and about any person who is overweight. He himself is very
: >> overweight.
: >> More overweight than I am. This person has a lot of other issues and
: >> isn't
: >> the most socially adept person. So his comments to me are meaningless.
: >
: > The proper response to folks like that is "Bite Me!" Ignore people
: > like that.

: Uh huh.
: >
: >>
: >> Yes, I have seen those shows on TV and read magazine articles and such
: >> about
: >> how the people in the fat suits were mistreated. But it could also be
: >> that
: >> they were carrying themselves differently than normal. I just don't
: >> know.
: >
: > Trust me, is because they are fat.

: No. I really don't think so.
: >
: >> I see plenty of fat people around here. People who are fatter than me.
: >> I've yet to hear anyone make a disparaging comment about them.
: >
: > Keep those friends!

: >> My dad was and is fat. He had a very good career. Went far up in the
: >> company. His weight didn't affect that at all.
: >
: > There is hope. Females suffer from fat bigotry far worse than
: > men. And since dieting makes you fat [10], guess what
: > happens to women when they give into to social pressure
: > and diet? (Should that have been a question mark or a period?)

: Oh good grief!
: >
: > Men suffer from being "success objects".

: Really good grief! Now you are insulting everyone and you yourself are
: coming across as a bigot.
: >
: > Our goal in society should be to judge people based on the
: > strength of their character. Not what they look like.

: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... How about we don't judge them at all? Of course judging
: is human nature too.


: > 1) http://vet.sagepub.com/content/18/2/143.full.pdf

: Something from 1981?
: >
: > 2) http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/

: A blog?
: >
: > 3)
: > http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
: >
: > 4)
: > http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.co...n=2&article=77

: Something from 2004?
: >
: > 5) https://www.google.com/Acetyl+L-Carnitine+neuropathy

: A Google search? Did that myself. No cite there said that lack of it
: caused neuropathy. One cite said that it might.
: >
: > 6)
: > http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/wbc/...sionsimple.pdf
: >
: 2004?

: > 7) http://www.medicinenet.com/vegetaria...diet/page2.htm

: Damn, Skippy! Your own cite proved you wrong there!
: >
: > 8) http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-n...deficiency.htm
: >
: We weren't talking about vitamin B deficiencies. And most vegans do know to
: eat nutritional yeast to prevent that.
: > 9)
: > http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-veganism.aspx

: A cite from a quack? Not even going to read that.
: >
: > 10) http://www.alternet.org/story/91890/..._makes_you_fat

: 2008.
: >
: > 11)
: > http://www.theiflife.com/the-inuit-p...se-and-cancer/

: Not interested in that.
: >
: > 12)
: > http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoo...s/fig-wasp.htm

: Okay...
: >
: > 13) http://www.retronaut.com/2011/11/vin...ight-gain-ads/

: Okay...

: You threw up a bunch of crap links, wasting my time. And not one thing
: proves what you said about lack of L Carnitine causing neuropathy.