"Rupert" > wrote in message
...
> On Apr 27, 8:06 pm, "Dutch" > wrote:
>> "Rupert" > wrote
>>
>> >> >>> Yes, there is, based on observation of primates like Koko the
>> >> >>> gorilla
>> >> >>> who have been taught sign language,
>>
>> >> >> Does not demonstrate that anything "matters to her."
>>
>> >> > Of course things matter to Koko,
>>
>> >> They don't. She has no awareness that there is a world, that she will
>> >> some day no longer be in it.
>>
>> > She does understand the concept of death,
>>
>> On what do you base this?
>>
>
> She has discussions about it with her caregivers.

They don't know what she is thinking, if anything.

>> > and she is aware of various
>> > aspects of the world just as you and I are
>>
>> No, not like that, human awareness is not like non-human awareness. <I
>> was
>> going to elaborate but I shouldn't have to>
>>
>
> I didn't say that her awareness was similar to ours in every respect.
> I said it was a property we had in common, which is true.

So what? Fruit flies are aware of various aspects of the world too.

> Also, her
> awareness of the world is quite similar to what Ball's son's awareness
> of the world was at the age of two.

So you repeat the AMC again and again, but that doesn't make it a valid
argument.
>
>> > and just as your son was
>> > when he was two years old.
>>
>> His son possessed the capability to become a PhD in mathematics or a
>> great
>> philosopher or musician, the ape is permanently two years old.
>>
>
> I think Ball's son is retarded, isn't he?
>
> Koko is learning the letters of the alphabet, she is not "permanently
> two years old". She has less potential for cognitive development than
> Ball's son, even if I am correct that Ball's son is retarded. So what?

Cognitively impaired humans may still possess the capability of higher
cognition, so we err on the safe side.


>> > She has similar linguistic and cognitive
>> > abilities to your son at the age of two. It is extremely obvious that
>> > things matter to her, and that she is aware of the world. She also has
>> > some understanding of the concept of death, although she becomes
>> > fidgety and uncomfortable when asked to discuss her own death. It is
>> > not clear to what extent she is aware of her own mortality.
>>
>> All unsupported supposition.
>
> No.
Yes, the interpretations of her trainers have been discredited by other
researchers. She mimics them.