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Glen Glen is offline
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Default "vegan" arrogance and egotism

On 25/03/2012 04:56, Mr.Smartypants wrote:
> On Mar 24, 9:08 pm, > wrote:
>> On 24/03/2012 18:18, George Plimpton wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 3/24/2012 6:24 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>>> On Mar 23, 11:19 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>> On 3/23/2012 1:42 PM, Rupert wrote:

>>
>>>>>> On Mar 23, 8:31 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/23/2012 10:44 AM, George Plimpton wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/23/2012 10:20 AM, Derek wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:56:09 -0700, George >
>>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/2012 8:46 AM, Rupert wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 4:00 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/2012 12:03 AM, Rupert wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 7:52 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2012 11:31 PM, Rupert wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 7:25 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2012 11:04 PM, Rupert wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 6:55 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2012 10:27 PM, Rupert wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2:33 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A typical "vegan" tries to argue "Why vegans are simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better people."http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=226259

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All "vegans" believe that. Woopert is lying when he says he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose would motivate me to lie about it?

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because you know that bragging that your character is better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of others, particularly on such an inflammatory and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contentious topic as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not putting animal parts in your mouth, is going to generate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well-founded criticism, and you don't want to have to defend
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> against the charge of placing yourself on a moral pedestal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lie. But you *do* think you're "simply better" than those who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> animal products.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You say that I am aware that the critcism would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "well-founded".

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I say it is well-founded, and it would be, because bragging
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being better, even if an objective case can be made that one is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is still disparaged.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter if you know it would be well-founded or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You *do*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know that the criticism would ensue, so to avoid it you lie and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not to believe what you obviously *do* believe.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I know that the criticism would be well-founded, wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this lead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me to critically re-examine the belief?

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The criticism would be for the bragging, you stupid ****wit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You know this.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The simple fact is, you do believe you're "better" than meat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eaters
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on what you don't put in your mouth.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really think, in general, it is meaningful to say that one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is "better" than another. I'm with the followers of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Rational Emotive Behavioural Therapy on this one. You can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningfully compare two different people.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's bullshit. If I focus on one wrong behavior at a time - say,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> robbing liquor stores - and you commit the crime and I don't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better than you in that one dimension - not in doubt.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, your behaviour is morally better in that dimension, yes, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> never denied that. I've always agreed that I believe that, other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things equal, making some effort to reduce the amount of suffering
>>>>>>>>>>>>> required to produce your food is morally better than not doing so.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem is *all* you have left is a shaky, ill-founded belief that
>>>>>>>>>>>> you're "making an effort" merely by not putting animal parts in your
>>>>>>>>>>>> mouth. All the piercing criticisms elaborated in the "vegan shuffle"
>>>>>>>>>>>> argument continue to hold. You aren't "minimizing" and you aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>> "doing the best you can" in regard to reducing suffering merely by not
>>>>>>>>>>>> putting animal parts in your mouth. You just can't conclude you're
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing anything meaningful by *not* consuming animal parts, relative to
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone who does. Your beliefs about what the consumption of animal
>>>>>>>>>>>> parts mean with regard to the *amount* of suffering one causes are
>>>>>>>>>>>> false.

>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What reasons do you have for thinking they are false?

>>
>>>>>>>>>> We've been through that countless times, you time-wasting shitbag. The
>>>>>>>>>> belief that one is making a meaningful reduction in animal suffering
>>>>>>>>>> merely by *not* putting animal parts in one's mouth has been
>>>>>>>>>> demonstrated to be illogical and false.

>>
>>>>>>>>> Then, to paraphrase, "The belief that one is making a meaningful
>>>>>>>>> reduction in [pollution] merely by *not* putting [garbage] in one's
>>>>>>>>> [garbage bin] has been demonstrated to be illogical and false."

>>
>>>>>>>> I never claimed that recycling necessarily reduces pollution. What it
>>>>>>>> does, unquestionably, is change the destination of the waste. If you
>>>>>>>> consider putting waste into a landfill (rubbish tip where you live) a
>>>>>>>> form of pollution, then necessarily recycling reduces that kind of
>>>>>>>> pollution. Now, I can't say with assurance that it reduces total
>>>>>>>> pollution, because when the materials are reprocessed, that certainly
>>>>>>>> creates more industrial pollution. Whether or not the pollution caused
>>>>>>>> by reprocessing the recyclables is less than, the same as or greater
>>>>>>>> than the pollution caused by processing virgin raw materials to make
>>>>>>>> stuff, I can't say. Intuitively, I think it's probably less, but I don't
>>>>>>>> know.

>>
>>>>>>>>> I know you're a keen on recycling what you can. Are you going to stop
>>>>>>>>> recycling now? Do you think that maybe your neighbours believe you
>>>>>>>>> think you're better than them because you recycle?

>>
>>>>>>>> In terms of my own beliefs, I believe I *am* better for keeping material
>>>>>>>> out of landfills.

>>
>>>>>>> There's another difference that makes your comparison not quite right.
>>>>>>> Pollution /per se/ isn't a moral issue; if I ignite some charcoal in my
>>>>>>> backyard barbecue and send a little smoke into the air, no one thinks of
>>>>>>> that as a moral issue /per se/. However, the AR/AL crowd do think human
>>>>>>> use of animals as an immoral act right from the beginning, either
>>>>>>> because it violates their "rights" or because it imposes suffering that
>>>>>>> crosses some moral threshold. "aras" think that refraining from
>>>>>>> consuming animal bits in and of itself is a moral improvement; I only
>>>>>>> think recycling is a moral improvement if there is some agreement that
>>>>>>> keeping waste out of landfills is a moral obligation, and I'm not sure
>>>>>>> that it is.

>>
>>>>>> I thought you said you believed you were better for keeping waste out
>>>>>> of landfills. Make up your mind.

>>
>>>>> I do think it's good to do. I don't think it's a moral obligation.

>>
>>>> And you believe that doing it makes you better.

>>
>>> I believe that it is better to put less waste in landfills, so recycling
>>> makes me better than I would be if I didn't do it.

>>
>> And better than others who don't. You believe something is bad and so you try to reduce your
>> contribution to that bad thing. Vegans believe something is bad and so they try to reduce their
>> contribution to that bad thing. You believe you're better than those who don't try to reduce their
>> contribution to your bad thing and so you automatically think vegans believe they're better than
>> those who don't try to reduce their contribution to their bad thing. You measure your virtue by
>> comparing yourself to others and so you think vegans measure their virtue by comparing themselves to
>> others as well. You're projecting your own faults onto vegans and trying to malign them for
>> something only you do. *LOL*

>
>
> That's pretty much how Gooberdoodle reacts to anything......by
> projecting.


He's a lying little fish too.

"I know a lot about economics, but I didn't complete the degree, and it's important to me to be
known as honest. Honesty compels me to admit that I didn't complete my Ph.D. " - Jonathan Ball
http://tinyurl.com/7nkls7x
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> So you're a drop-out


Nope. Ph.D. in economics; UCLA. Jonathan Ball
http://tinyurl.com/yztzj7x

*LOL*