"vegan" arrogance and egotism
On 3/23/2012 3:07 PM, Rupert wrote:
> On Mar 23, 11:03 pm, George > wrote:
>> On 3/23/2012 1:30 PM, Rupert wrote:
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>>> On Mar 23, 4:56 pm, George > wrote:
>>>> On 3/23/2012 8:46 AM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>> On Mar 23, 4:00 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/23/2012 12:03 AM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 7:52 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2012 11:31 PM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 7:25 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2012 11:04 PM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 6:55 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/2012 10:27 PM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2:33 am, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A typical "vegan" tries to argue "Why vegans are simply better people."http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=226259
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All "vegans" believe that. Woopert is lying when he says he doesn't.
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you suppose would motivate me to lie about it?
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>>>>>>>>>>>> Because you know that bragging that your character is better than that
>>>>>>>>>>>> of others, particularly on such an inflammatory and contentious topic as
>>>>>>>>>>>> not putting animal parts in your mouth, is going to generate a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>> well-founded criticism, and you don't want to have to defend yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>> against the charge of placing yourself on a moral pedestal, so you just
>>>>>>>>>>>> lie. But you *do* think you're "simply better" than those who use
>>>>>>>>>>>> animal products.
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>>>>>>>>>>> You say that I am aware that the critcism would be "well-founded".
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>>>>>>>>>> No, I say it is well-founded, and it would be, because bragging about
>>>>>>>>>> being better, even if an objective case can be made that one is better,
>>>>>>>>>> is still disparaged.
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>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter if you know it would be well-founded or not. You *do*
>>>>>>>>>> know that the criticism would ensue, so to avoid it you lie and claim
>>>>>>>>>> not to believe what you obviously *do* believe.
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>>>>>>>>>>> If I know that the criticism would be well-founded, wouldn't this lead
>>>>>>>>>>> me to critically re-examine the belief?
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>>>>>>>>>> The criticism would be for the bragging, you stupid ****wit. You know this.
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>>>>>>>>>> The simple fact is, you do believe you're "better" than meat eaters
>>>>>>>>>> based on what you don't put in your mouth.
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>>>>>>>>> I don't really think, in general, it is meaningful to say that one
>>>>>>>>> person is "better" than another. I'm with the followers of the school
>>>>>>>>> of Rational Emotive Behavioural Therapy on this one. You can't
>>>>>>>>> meaningfully compare two different people.
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>>>>>>>> That's bullshit. If I focus on one wrong behavior at a time - say,
>>>>>>>> robbing liquor stores - and you commit the crime and I don't, then I am
>>>>>>>> better than you in that one dimension - not in doubt.
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>>>>>>> Well, your behaviour is morally better in that dimension, yes, and I
>>>>>>> never denied that. I've always agreed that I believe that, other
>>>>>>> things equal, making some effort to reduce the amount of suffering
>>>>>>> required to produce your food is morally better than not doing so.
>>
>>>>>> The problem is *all* you have left is a shaky, ill-founded belief that
>>>>>> you're "making an effort" merely by not putting animal parts in your
>>>>>> mouth. All the piercing criticisms elaborated in the "vegan shuffle"
>>>>>> argument continue to hold. You aren't "minimizing" and you aren't
>>>>>> "doing the best you can" in regard to reducing suffering merely by not
>>>>>> putting animal parts in your mouth. You just can't conclude you're
>>>>>> doing anything meaningful by *not* consuming animal parts, relative to
>>>>>> someone who does. Your beliefs about what the consumption of animal
>>>>>> parts mean with regard to the *amount* of suffering one causes are false.
>>
>>>>> What reasons do you have for thinking they are false?
>>
>>>> We've been through that countless times, you time-wasting shitbag. The
>>>> belief that one is making a meaningful reduction in animal suffering
>>>> merely by *not* putting animal parts in one's mouth has been
>>>> demonstrated to be illogical and false.
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>>> No, it hasn't.
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>> It has, of course, and you know it.
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> Of course, I don't.
You do, of course.
> If I believed that, why would I still be vegan?
Irrational obstinacy.
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