"vegan" arrogance and egotism
On Mar 23, 4:57*pm, George Plimpton > wrote:
> On 3/23/2012 8:48 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 23, 4:01 pm, George > *wrote:
> >> On 3/23/2012 12:09 AM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>> On Mar 23, 7:55 am, George > * *wrote:
> >>>> On 3/22/2012 11:47 PM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Mar 23, 7:25 am, George > * * *wrote:
> >>>>>> On 3/22/2012 11:04 PM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> On Mar 23, 6:55 am, George > * * * *wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 3/22/2012 10:27 PM, Rupert wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 23, 2:33 am, George > * * * * *wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> A typical "vegan" tries to argue "Why vegans are simply better people."http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=226259
>
> >>>>>>>>>> All "vegans" believe that. *Woopert is lying when he says he doesn't.
>
> >>>>>>>>> What do you suppose would motivate me to lie about it?
>
> >>>>>>>> Because you know that bragging that your character is better than that
> >>>>>>>> of others, particularly on such an inflammatory and contentious topic as
> >>>>>>>> not putting animal parts in your mouth, is going to generate a lot of
> >>>>>>>> well-founded criticism, and you don't want to have to defend yourself
> >>>>>>>> against the charge of placing yourself on a moral pedestal, so you just
> >>>>>>>> lie. *But you *do* think you're "simply better" than those who use
> >>>>>>>> animal products.
>
> >>>>>>> You say that I am aware that the critcism would be "well-founded"..
>
> >>>>>> No, I say it is well-founded, and it would be, because bragging about
> >>>>>> being better, even if an objective case can be made that one is better,
> >>>>>> is still disparaged.
>
> >>>>>> It doesn't matter if you know it would be well-founded or not. *You *do*
> >>>>>> know that the criticism would ensue, so to avoid it you lie and claim
> >>>>>> not to believe what you obviously *do* believe.
>
> >>>>>>> If I know that the criticism would be well-founded, wouldn't this lead
> >>>>>>> me to critically re-examine the belief?
>
> >>>>>> The criticism would be for the bragging, you stupid ****wit. *You know this.
>
> >>>>>> The simple fact is, you do believe you're "better" than meat eaters
> >>>>>> based on what you don't put in your mouth.
>
> >>>>> You obviously want to believe that what's in it for me to be a vegan
> >>>>> is to be able to view myself as a "better" person, as opposed to
> >>>>> trying to do something about animal suffering.
>
> >>>> It has been shown that you can't conclude anything meaningful about the
> >>>> amount of animal suffering you cause*, yet you continue to remain
> >>>> "vegan" and you think it is *good* to do that. *As there is no objective
> >>>> moral gain from it, the only thing left is a personal gain to you in
> >>>> your self-esteem. *You think you're "better" than meat eaters.
>
> >>>> * you aren't living "cruelty free", you're not "minimizing", you're not
> >>>> "doing the best you can".
>
> >>> I can conclude something meaningful about the amount of animal
> >>> suffering required to produce my food.
>
> >> You can't conclude anything about it. *There is no /a priori/ reason to
> >> believe that some "vegan", somewhere, is causing the *most* animal
> >> suffering of all of humanity. **Nothing* about merely not putting animal
> >> parts in one's mouth rules out that one might be causing more animal
> >> suffering than anyone else.
>
> >> That is a fact, and you know it.
>
> > No, I don't.
>
> You *do* know it. *You *know* that refraining from putting animal parts
> in your mouth does not rule out that you might be causing more animal
> suffering than anyone. *You *know* that. *Stop lying.
>
> > I don't think it's especially sensible not to believe
> > that going vegan is a good strategy for reducing the amount of animal
> > suffering one causes.
>
> You *know* that it is no basis whatever for concluding that one is
> reducing suffering.
Absolute nonsense.
|