vicarious moral responsibility
On 3/8/2012 11:30 PM, Rupert wrote:
> On Mar 9, 8:05 am, George > wrote:
>> On 3/8/2012 10:45 PM, Rupert wrote:
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>>> On Mar 8, 6:59 pm, George > wrote:
>>>> On 3/8/2012 9:38 AM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>> On Mar 8, 5:46 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/8/2012 8:10 AM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>>>> On Mar 8, 5:09 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/8/2012 7:43 AM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>>>>>> On Mar 8, 4:42 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/8/2012 12:05 AM, Rupert wrote:
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>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 7, 9:32 pm, George > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "glen" or "mark" or "little cocksucker" - the friend of Lesley Simon,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Whore of Ballaghaderreen, County Roscommon - has it. He shares
>>>>>>>>>>>> moral responsibility for the animal CDs caused in order to put food on
>>>>>>>>>>>> his plate. This cannot be rationally disputed.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> His relationship with the hands-on killers of animals has these elements:
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>>>>>>>>>>>> * the relationship is voluntary - no coercion applied to the principal
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>>>>>>>>>>>> * the principal is an active participant, i.e., actively engages in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the relationship such as, for example, going to the grocery
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>>>>>>>>>>>> * the principal is fully aware of the agent's actions
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>>>>>>>>>>>> * the relationship is not instrumentally necessary for the principal to
>>>>>>>>>>>> achieve a legitimate goal, e.g. the acquisition of food
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "mark" or "glen" or "little cocksucker" or whatever he is this week
>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't need to hire an agent at all, and he doesn't need to hire one
>>>>>>>>>>>> who kills animals collaterally. That he does makes him share moral
>>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility for the deaths of animals. He cannot claim to be living
>>>>>>>>>>>> a "cruelty free 'lifestyle'", and he sure as hell isn't "minimizing" his
>>>>>>>>>>>> CD footprint because he has never measured.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Your injection of carbon emission's into our planet's atmosphere has
>>>>>>>>>>> these elements:
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>>>>>>>>>>> - It is voluntary; no-one is coercing you into doing it.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - You are an active participant
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>>>>>>>>>>> - You are fully aware of the likely consequences of continued
>>>>>>>>>>> injection of carbon emissions into our planet's atmosphere for other
>>>>>>>>>>> humans
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>>>>>>>>>>> - It is not instrumentally necessary for you to achieve any
>>>>>>>>>>> legitimate goal.
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>>>>>>>>>>> You therefore have vicarious moral responsibility for the future harms
>>>>>>>>>>> to humans that will take place that will have been contributed to by
>>>>>>>>>>> your activity.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep - I never denied it, either.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Okay, good. Would you also agree that it is more than likely that some
>>>>>>>>> humans will very prematurely die in the future as a result of
>>>>>>>>> anthropogenic climate change to which your activity has contributed?
>>
>>>>>>>> Still trying to find some way to make the dispersed sand of that fake
>>>>>>>> pedestal come back together like a rock, are you, Woopert? It won't
>>>>>>>> work. Your belief about your moral pose is false.
>>
>>>>>>> I don't know what belief you are talking about,
>>
>>>>>> The belief that refraining from eating animal bits is ethically
>>>>>> required, and that therefore if one does it one is ethically superior to
>>>>>> one who doesn't. That belief, you ****ing liar.
>>
>>>>> I don't believe either of those things.
>>
>>>> You sure do believe the first, and logically therefore you must believe
>>>> the second. Both are false.
>>
>>> What I believe is that it is morally required, for most people living
>>> in modern agriculturally bountiful societies, anyway, to make some
>>> effort to reduce the amount of suffering and premature death that
>>> needs to be caused in order to produce their food. In fact I've been
>>> known to say they should make "every reasonable effort" although I
>>> acknowledge I have not offered any useful definition of what counts as
>>> a "reasonable effort",
>>
>> Of course you haven't, because you, yourself, do nothing, so blabbering
>> about "reasonable effort" would be rather leaden irony coming from you.
>
> It is obviously false that I have done nothing.
It is quite obviously *true* that you have done nothing.
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