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Old 05-03-2012, 08:22 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,,
[email protected] dh@. is offline
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Default The 'vegan' shuffle

On Fri, 2 Mar 2012 09:35:17 -0800 (PST), Rupert

On 2 Mrz., 16:43, Goo wrote:

Forget about ****wit's lack of hard evidence. *You have to make a wholly
implausible case to try to suggest that calorically equivalent servings
of beef and rice have a collateral death toll that favors the rice.

I never said anything about rice.

We were discussing soy because I am overly generous, just as I also was with
the estimate of 5 deaths related to a type of animal that is often likely to
produce none.

But I also don't have any idea about what could be said about
calorically equivalent servings of beef and rice, either.

Rice would necessarily involve even more than soy. If you figure up the
difference between grass raised milk and rice milk the difference would be even
more huge in favor of the cow milk. HUGE!!!

I get the pleasure once again of telling you what you do and don't
believe, because I know: *you do not believe that the rice causes fewer
CDs than the beef.

No, I don't. I lack a belief one way or the other, because I have no
evidence one way or the other.

In some cases soy causes more and in some beef causes more. Can you get that
far along with it, doctor?

(I assume you're talking about fully grass-fed beef, by the way, the
cattle are put out to pasture the whole year round. Yes?)

Start with that.

In any case I never said anything about rice. I was talking about

It looks like we're on rice too now. Rice is worse then either. It's
probably the worst of all. What could be worse? How?

*You just don't believe it, and we all know you don't
believe it.

I don't have any opinion one way or the other, because I don't have
sufficient information.

Sometimes beef will involve more and sometimes the soy will.

Suppose I wanted to go about buying some beef which had a smaller CD
count per serving than a typical calorically equivalent serving of
rice. How exactly would you suggest I go about doing that, given that
I live in the European Union at the moment? How would I be sure that
the beef was not partially grain-fed?

Go inquire from some cattle farmers in the area. If they don't have any to
sell you, or know anyone who does, they could still help you move in the
direction of finding someone who does know. While you're around the cattle see
if the farmer will let you observe them a little bit, and if so see if you can
appreciate that some or all of them appear to have lives of positive value, or
if you see some you feel do and some you feel don't maybe then you could learn
to appreciate the distinction. That is if you want to see it first hand as you
SHOULD! If there are any grass raised dairys in the area you would almost
certainly do better to begin with that, and it's better than beef anyway
ethically. So a great opportunity for you is to drop by a dairy farm probably in
the evening around 4 or 5 or in the morning when there are people around
milking, and ask them if any dairies in the area are grass raised. Also if there
is some sort of agricultural department in your area or someplace not too far
away you should call them and they might be able to tell you where to get grass
raised animal products and free range eggs too. If you could go to a battery
farm and ask them where to get cage free eggs, and see if they would let you
look at the birds to see what you think, then go to the cage free place or a
place where they raise the parents of either broilers or layers (because the
parents are kept cage free for better breeding) and see what you think. If you
do that successfully even you might learn to appreciate a distinction you as yet
claim to be unable to.