On 10/8/2011 2:36 AM, Laurie wrote:

> On 10/7/2011 11:10 PM, P. Rajah wrote:
> On 10/7/2011 6:36 PM, Laurie wrote:
>
> On 10/6/2011 11:54 AM, wrote:
>
> == Humans and our immediate hominid ancestors have always
> == eaten meat - not in rational dispute.
> Always?? That's quite a long time, way before historical records.
> Humans are frugivorous apes, always have been.
> http://www.gate.net/%7Erwms/primegendist.html

Wrong. "Always" is a wrong as wrong gets.

"Almost two million years ago, early humans began eating food such as
crocodiles, turtles and fish – a diet that could have played an
important role in the evolution of human brains and our footsteps out of
Africa, according to new research."
http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20100206-21022.html

There is also the fact that the average life-span of ancient humans was
about 30 years, similar to what prevailed in largely vegetarian India at
the beginning of the 20th century. There are so many variables that an
agenda-specific mindset such as yours cannot, or simply refuses to,
comprehend. Ultimately, good health and long life are functions of
healthy habits and moderation, and avoidance of clearly unhealthy habits
such as smoking and sloth. There are good meats, and bad, just as there
are good grains and bad, for human consumption. People like you are at
one extreme, and refuse to acknowledge that "meat eaters" generally
incorporate a good portion of vegetables and greens in their diet. That
is, they actually tend to have a more balanced diet. As a matter of
fact, meat-eaters in the west eat their veggies and greens in a much
healthier fashion than vegetarians in India, who tend to boil and fry
much of the goodness out of their food. But I have yet to see a campaign
in India to get people to consume their vegetables in a healthier
fashion, to get the most nutrition our of them.


> == Apes eat meat, without having to cook it.
> This is a juvenile oversimplification of the facts that:
> 1> A -minor- fraction of adult males of -some- CHIMP tribes will hunt in
> packs, kill, and eat small amounts,
>
> 2> and, more importantly, give the spoils of the hunt to females for
> sexual favors.
> So, it is clear that chimp flesh-eating is a SOCIAL function, NOT a
> nutritional instinct which is programmed into CHIMPS DNA. Clearly, a
> true nutritional need would be shown in ALL tribes to the same degree,
> and that is simply not the case.

There are dogs in India raised on exclusively vegetarian diets, and
surviving reasonably well, which could be taken as demonstration that
there is "no true nutritional need" for meat in a dog's diet. Does this
indicate that dogs aren't carnivorous? On the flip side, dogs can just
as well be raised on a predominantly meat-based diet, which would prove
that there is "no true nutritional need" for grain or vegetables or
fruit in a dog's diet. The one guilty of oversimplification, Laurie, is
*you*.


> http://www.ecologos.org/chimphunt.htm
> http://ecologos.org/pix/primatediets.gif
> http://www.ecologos.org/meat-eating.htm
> http://www.ecologos.org/fft.htm
> http://ecologos.org/cbs.htm
> http://ecologos.org/iangilby.htm
> http://www.ecologos.org/anatomy.htm
> http://www.ecologos.org/omni.htm
> http://www.ecologos.org/addict.htm
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

So you provide a bunch of links from *your own* vegan website, with its
clearly biased agenda, and claim that as "proof"!


> I have demonstrated your claims to be grossly in error; now, are you
> honest enough to withdraw your falsehoods, and apologize to the public
> for misleading them??

You have demonstrated nothing. You have not debated articles showing the
consumption of meat among primates and humans that contradict your
claims. The ones doing the misleading are you vegans and vegetarians,
with your attempts to re-write history and promote misleading "science".

> == If anything, humans have generally *devolved* the ability to consume
> raw meat since they developed the ability to make fire, although some
> societies even today consume certain types of raw meat.
> Meaningless nonsense; the consumption of "meat" is THE cause of Western
> degenerative diseases.

Nope, it is not meaningless, since clearly at some point humans did eat
raw meat. We no longer do that, although perhaps we still can, as some
survival stories have shown. Furthermore, is it "meaningless nonsense"
that some societies, such as the Apache and Wichita Indians, still eat
raw meat(and the Masai drink raw cattle blood)?

The cause of degenerative diseases is the lack of balance in diet and
lifestyle. It could be related to excessive sugars, excessive salt,
excessive fats, excessive starch, excessive meat, excessive torpidity
and obesity. Being that you are a vegan, you cannot see beyond your
primary target.

> See The China Study by TCCampbell.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/China-Study-Co.../dp/1932100385
>
>
> Now; are you intellectually-honest enough to admit your beliefs are
> nonsense and withdraw them, with a polite apology for trying to mislead
> the public??
>
> Laurie

What for, Laurie? If anyone needs to apologize, it is *you*, with your
truth-excluding propaganda. Chinese diets include meat and fish, but in
sensible quantities. It's like salt in your diet: too much of anything
is bad for you, whether it is sugar, salt, carbs, proteins, or fiber.
Balance is what is called for, and balance is determined by various
factors in the life of the subject.


> scientifically-credible vegan information:
> www.ecologos.org/ttdd.html
> news:alt.food.vegan.science

Scientific sources are credible. Biased sources, whether owing
allegiance to veganism or meat-eating, are not. You, Laurie, are clearly
not credible.

Perhaps you would care to counter the arguments of ex-vegetarians and
others who are tired of the b.s. propaganda of people like you:
http://www.beyondveg.com

From your newsgroup handle, I always thought you were a woman. Never
heard of someone named Lawrence calling himself Laurie. Not apropos of
anything, just wondering....

--
Astrology: Fraud or Superstition?
http://www.seesharppress.com/astro.html

Ass-troll-ogers/jyotishitheads are the bane of humanity, and must be
cleansed or otherwise purified for the benefit of society.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/vhp-terrorism