On Dec 17, 4:26*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> On Dec 17, 9:40*am, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 7:15*am, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 17, 2:22*am, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 17, 12:25*am, AyTee > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
> > > > > > Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
> > > > > > Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
> > > > > > guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
> > > > > > with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
> > > > > > Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
> > > > > > nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
> > > > > > saved some for my oysters. B+/A-
>
> > > > > *
> > > > > I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up athttp://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir(glossarythat
> > > > > used to be accessible through Strat's Place).
>
> > > > > "An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
> > > > > white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
> > > > > Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
> > > > > cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
> > > > > his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
> > > > > whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
> > > > > sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
> > > > > about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
> > > > > neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
> > > > > styles that peak in about four to eight years."
>
> > > > There are several vineyards in areas of Burgundy best known for reds
> > > > that produce some whites. Most of the white grapes appear to be
> > > > mutations of Pinot Noir and seem to pop up in Pinot Noir vineyards at
> > > > random. I will mention a few I have had over the years. D. Ponsot in
> > > > Morey-Saint-Denis made some Monts-Luisant Blanc which I last tasted in
> > > > the 90s,. Comte de Vogue made a 1979 Musigny Blanc which I have
> > > > tasted. I also have tasted the Clos Blanc *de Vougeot 1973 from D..
> > > > L'Heritier Guyot. I also have tasted the Perriers Blanc 1983 from D..
> > > > Henri Gouges. These wines were interesting to taste, but for my taste
> > > > I usually like the Chardonnay based white Burgundy from the better
> > > > vineyards and producers better.
>
> > > I thought the Musigny Blanc was Chardonnay?
> > > I talked to the guy from Vougeraie (the old Guyot estate) a few years
> > > ago, he said the Clos Blanc de Vougeot was Chardonnay with a little
> > > Pinot Gris interspersed.
> > > Recently Frederic Mugnier started producing a white from the Clos de
> > > la Marechal in NSG, I believe they said it was Chardonnay that had
> > > historically been sold off to make Bourgogne blanc.
> > > I think all of these may be priced high due to curiosity factor
> > > (though I bought the Gogues for about 30% of normal retail in a
> > > closeout)
>
> > I have not done research from trusted sources to know exactly which
> > northern Burgundy white wines are made from mutations of red Pinot
> > Noir and which are made from Chardonnay. Perhaps one of Clive Coates'
> > books will have the information. I tend to agree with you that some of
> > these wines tend to be priced high due to the curiosity factor. Also I
> > tasted the wines mentioned many years ago, so more recent vintages
> > could be better or worse, depending on changes at the various estates.
>
> I have looked in Cote d'Or by Clive Coates published in 1997, so some
> of the information there may be a bit out of date.Coates on p 144
> states that in Nuits-Saint-Georges some white wines are produced, both
> village and premier cru.Separate bottling of white wine here is
> relatively new, and quantities are very small. However it has always
> been the practice until relatively recently to plant a few white grape
> vines with the red to soften the red wines a bit. Before WW II, Henri
> Gouges discovered mutation of Pinot Noir that produced white grapes in
> his vineyard. He propagated them from cuttings. He first had enough
> grapes to make a small amount of wine in 1947. Others obtained
> cuttings from him. Coates calls this mutation Pinot Gouges. Other
> producers make white wine from Chardonnay, Pinot Beurot, or from a
> mixture of all three. At the time of the book, there were only about
> 135000 bottles of the white per year. Coates finds the wine
> intriguing. He does not rate it with the quality of white Corton or
> Meursault and says it comes in various styles. He says that in most
> cases it is better in 4 to 8 years rather than at 10+.
>
> The Morey-Saint-Denis appellation applies to white as well as red
> wines. Production of white was only 80 hl in 1993 from under 3 ha..
> Les Monts Lauisants blanc from Ponsot can/or could be found from time
> to time on the export market. On page 575, Coates describes the white
> Les Monts-Luisants, and this is rather complicated. The vineyard has
> red Pinot Noir grapes as well. There used to be some mutated Pinot
> Noir giving white grapes (Pinot Gouges) but these vines were removed.
> There also used to be quite a bit of very old Aligote vines dating
> from 1911. At the time Coates wrote the book, about 50% each of the
> old Aligote and Chardonnay were being used.
>
> De Vogue has a small plot of Chardonnay as well as Pinot Noir in his
> Musigny holdings. In the past a small amount of Chardonnay often was
> used in making red Musigny. In more recent times a tiny amount of the
> Chardonnay alone is bottled as Musigny Blanc. This was nearly
> impossible to find for a while when new plantings of Chardonnay were
> made. It tends to be a very full wine, nothing like Corton-Charlemagne
> or Montrachet. If you do find a bottle, the price is likely to be very
> high.
>
> The grand cru in Vougeot is Clos de Vougeot. One could easily be
> misled by labels, but the white wine often called Clos de Vougeot
> blanc is nothing of the sort and rather comes from the *premier cru
> vineyard Le Clos Blanc (only 3.05 ha.). The grape likely is
> Chardonnay, but I did not find proof of this in Coates' book.
>
> I guess that one should never expect anything to be simple in
> Burgundy. Does the region produce many good lawyers as well as good
> wine?

Thanks for the research, good stuff!
I think Vogue still bottles the white, but calls it Bourgogne Blanc
right now because the vines are young after replanting.