On Dec 17, 9:40*am, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> On Dec 17, 7:15*am, DaleW > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 17, 2:22*am, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 17, 12:25*am, AyTee > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 16, 9:36*am, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > > > > I had brought a blind starter. Initial guesses were Chablis and white
> > > > > Rhone, I said it wasn't Chablis and they went more generally white
> > > > > Burgundy. I confused them when I said not Chardonnay, with folks
> > > > > guessing Aligote and other minor grapes. Turns out no one was familiar
> > > > > with the Pinot Gouges (white sport of PN). 2006 Henri Gouges *“la
> > > > > Perrieres” Nuits St. Georges Blanc 1er. Floral, slight honey note on
> > > > > nose. Rich, good acids, good length, soil notes. I quite enjoy, and
> > > > > saved some for my oysters. B+/A-
>
> > > > *
> > > > I had not heard of Pinot Gouges, so I looked it up athttp://www.wineloverspage.com/wineguest/wgg.html#pnoir(glossarythat
> > > > used to be accessible through Strat's Place).
>
> > > > "An interesting mutant of old vine Pinot Noir that started producing
> > > > white-skinned grapes was reportedly propagated (1936) in his "Les
> > > > Perrieres" plot (cru) by Henri Gouges of Burgundy. By 1947 rooted
> > > > cuttings from these vines were fairly widespread in the district. In
> > > > his magisterial book "Cote D'Or", 1997, pps. 144/457, Clive Coates
> > > > whimsically allots the alias name Pinot Gouges to these vines. Other
> > > > sources refer to it as the Pinot Musigny. At last report there was
> > > > about 2.5 ha planted, producing a white wine described by Coates as
> > > > neither Meursault or Corton, but intriguing and produced in different
> > > > styles that peak in about four to eight years."
>
> > > There are several vineyards in areas of Burgundy best known for reds
> > > that produce some whites. Most of the white grapes appear to be
> > > mutations of Pinot Noir and seem to pop up in Pinot Noir vineyards at
> > > random. I will mention a few I have had over the years. D. Ponsot in
> > > Morey-Saint-Denis made some Monts-Luisant Blanc which I last tasted in
> > > the 90s,. Comte de Vogue made a 1979 Musigny Blanc which I have
> > > tasted. I also have tasted the Clos Blanc *de Vougeot 1973 from D.
> > > L'Heritier Guyot. I also have tasted the Perriers Blanc 1983 from D.
> > > Henri Gouges. These wines were interesting to taste, but for my taste
> > > I usually like the Chardonnay based white Burgundy from the better
> > > vineyards and producers better.
>
> > I thought the Musigny Blanc was Chardonnay?
> > I talked to the guy from Vougeraie (the old Guyot estate) a few years
> > ago, he said the Clos Blanc de Vougeot was Chardonnay with a little
> > Pinot Gris interspersed.
> > Recently Frederic Mugnier started producing a white from the Clos de
> > la Marechal in NSG, I believe they said it was Chardonnay that had
> > historically been sold off to make Bourgogne blanc.
> > I think all of these may be priced high due to curiosity factor
> > (though I bought the Gogues for about 30% of normal retail in a
> > closeout)
>
> I have not done research from trusted sources to know exactly which
> northern Burgundy white wines are made from mutations of red Pinot
> Noir and which are made from Chardonnay. Perhaps one of Clive Coates'
> books will have the information. I tend to agree with you that some of
> these wines tend to be priced high due to the curiosity factor. Also I
> tasted the wines mentioned many years ago, so more recent vintages
> could be better or worse, depending on changes at the various estates.

I have looked in Cote d'Or by Clive Coates published in 1997, so some
of the information there may be a bit out of date.Coates on p 144
states that in Nuits-Saint-Georges some white wines are produced, both
village and premier cru.Separate bottling of white wine here is
relatively new, and quantities are very small. However it has always
been the practice until relatively recently to plant a few white grape
vines with the red to soften the red wines a bit. Before WW II, Henri
Gouges discovered mutation of Pinot Noir that produced white grapes in
his vineyard. He propagated them from cuttings. He first had enough
grapes to make a small amount of wine in 1947. Others obtained
cuttings from him. Coates calls this mutation Pinot Gouges. Other
producers make white wine from Chardonnay, Pinot Beurot, or from a
mixture of all three. At the time of the book, there were only about
135000 bottles of the white per year. Coates finds the wine
intriguing. He does not rate it with the quality of white Corton or
Meursault and says it comes in various styles. He says that in most
cases it is better in 4 to 8 years rather than at 10+.

The Morey-Saint-Denis appellation applies to white as well as red
wines. Production of white was only 80 hl in 1993 from under 3 ha..
Les Monts Lauisants blanc from Ponsot can/or could be found from time
to time on the export market. On page 575, Coates describes the white
Les Monts-Luisants, and this is rather complicated. The vineyard has
red Pinot Noir grapes as well. There used to be some mutated Pinot
Noir giving white grapes (Pinot Gouges) but these vines were removed.
There also used to be quite a bit of very old Aligote vines dating
from 1911. At the time Coates wrote the book, about 50% each of the
old Aligote and Chardonnay were being used.

De Vogue has a small plot of Chardonnay as well as Pinot Noir in his
Musigny holdings. In the past a small amount of Chardonnay often was
used in making red Musigny. In more recent times a tiny amount of the
Chardonnay alone is bottled as Musigny Blanc. This was nearly
impossible to find for a while when new plantings of Chardonnay were
made. It tends to be a very full wine, nothing like Corton-Charlemagne
or Montrachet. If you do find a bottle, the price is likely to be very
high.

The grand cru in Vougeot is Clos de Vougeot. One could easily be
misled by labels, but the white wine often called Clos de Vougeot
blanc is nothing of the sort and rather comes from the premier cru
vineyard Le Clos Blanc (only 3.05 ha.). The grape likely is
Chardonnay, but I did not find proof of this in Coates' book.

I guess that one should never expect anything to be simple in
Burgundy. Does the region produce many good lawyers as well as good
wine?