2009/5/24 Mike >:
>
>
>
> Hi everyone, the bread lovers and the grammar purists,
>

> I think that the yeast bacteria and the lactobacilli are alive and plentiful
> since I can always rebuild the sour, bubbly and very acidy using a portion
> of old sour as a starter.
>
>ctivity by itself does not reveal the actual actors behind. Maybe your ratio between yeast and LB's is too much on the yeast side?


> I have tried various starter/dough ratios, up to 50% starter flour/ flour
> with similar and disappointing results.
>

If you have varied several factors and the result is still not what
you like - what is the common denominator you have not yet changed?

> Bulk fermentation time 5-6 hours at room temperature (22 - 24 C)

ok - maybe that's it?

There is some sweet spot, where both critters grow equally - something
around 28 C ??

Some learned person stated somewhere that the yeasts drop out after a
number of refreshments at higher temperature - maybe 34 C -isch?

Maybe that's a direction to explore since your hydration variation
changed something - just not what you wanted - more sourness.

> 3 The recipe:
>
> White flour (13 % gluten content) - 100%
>
> Sour (50/50 flour to water) - 2%
>
> Water - 60 %
>
> Bulk fermentation - 6 h
>
> Proofing - 2.5 h
>
> Baking 230 C for 40 min
>
With this - are you talking baker's % i. e. every percent number is
relative to total flour?

In any case - your 2 % (whichever % method) and half of it could be
water appears puny to what's (IMO) good - 10 - 20 % starter flour
(baker's %) with white - if you have a 1000 g dough with 60 %
hydration - 100 % is flour, 60 % relative to that water. That would be
625 g flour and 375 g water - from your 625 g flour, you have 1 % (1/2
of your 50/50 starter) - something like 6 g starter flour - 12 g
starter, a TB or something, could that be right? If that's right -
that's another aspect to consider.

If you insist on 2 % - the 6 h fermentation look too short - maybe
double or triple that.

I would not do this kind of stuff when there is a general problem with
something. That's an "out of order" recipe and requires some other
measures - lower hydration (stiffer dough), longer dough fermentation
and a functional starter (getting sour) to get a good result.

Also - with low stater %, you invite contamination i. e. something
else starts to grow.

> I am getting pretty good results with my rye bread using stiff rye sour but
> I fail to make wholly white bread using totally white sour. Is it possible
> at all in anyone's experience?

If you use the same starter % (and it is not a typo) who knows what is
happening with the rye, sure won't work. Must be a totally different
recipe then.

See if that gets you anything,

Sam