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Dominic T. Dominic T. is offline
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Default Gaiwans have won

On Apr 27, 4:40*pm, AK > wrote:
> Dominic T. wrote:
> > On Apr 27, 9:50 am, AK > wrote:
> >> Dominic T. wrote:
> >>> On Apr 27, 7:45 am, AK > wrote:
> >>>> How much water do you heat up at a time and how do you keep it hot?
> >>>> I almost never use gaiwan lately because it's too much hassle to go
> >>>> to the kitchen and heat up more water and I don't like the taste of
> >>>> water boiled with an electric kettle.. other than that I'd love to
> >>>> use gaiwans more often. I end up only drinking blacks, greens and
> >>>> yellows because of this. -ak
> >>> Often I do use an electric kettle, one of which has a temp hold
> >>> feature and one that does not. At work I use the water cooler/heater
> >>> which is a local PA spring water and I turn the thermostat all the way
> >>> up so I get ~195-200 degrees. I actually don't heat and reheat the
> >>> water very often, in fact because I drink many teas that take lower
> >>> temps i make the first brew and then just make subsequent brews with
> >>> the water at whatever temp it remains to be. Many swear by adding heat
> >>> for each subsequent brew, but with greens I find that it's not really
> >>> necessary for many... the descending heat does just fine, I may up the
> >>> steep time a bit but that's all. Yellows also do great like this.
> >>> Same thing could be done with a kettle on the stove, heat it up once
> >>> and keep using it. I often give the same treatment to oolongs and
> >>> blacks without a major issue. There is an art to it that took me a
> >>> while to perfect and to match to my tastes but it can be done with a
> >>> little effort. The big thing is to find a kettle that keeps the heat
> >>> really well or I'd imagine you could pour off to a nice glass vacuum
> >>> thermos and use that for each brewing after the first.
> >>> - Dominic
> >> That's pretty much what I've tried to do many times but it's always
> >> a bit off. I mean, if I heat up about 4 gaiwans worth (I have a very
> >> small gaiwan), then it's perfect but then I have to heat up the kettle
> >> once again.. Basically, it comes down to spending ~7 minutes to make
> >> a 3-cup pot vs. spending at least ~45 minutes hanging around the kitchen,
> >> heating kettle 2-3 times, timing the infusions right, and drinking
> >> the tea leasurely. I could speed the whole thing up but then I have
> >> to drink it too fast and that's no fun. If I could work in the kitchen
> >> on the laptop, I would probably adjust eventually, but I hate the
> >> laptop's keyboard.

>
> >> What I end up doing is this: I have two 3-cup glass pots and I brew
> >> in one of them, with no infuser, and then decant into the second one.
> >> I have to say I was never able to make greens and yellows in a gaiwan
> >> as nicely as I get them with this method, although I haven't tried
> >> that many times. But.. it's just hard to imagine that it's possible
> >> to make better green, yellow and black tea than that - very often
> >> it comes out just perfect; I do like light tea--I think part of
> >> the advantage of a gaiwan is that it's possible to make much stronger
> >> tea without adding too much astringency and sourness; but light
> >> tea suits me even better.

>
> >> So, my only problem is oolongs and puerhs. The funny thing is that
> >> I keep buying them and I do like them so they just keep accumulating
> >> and... it's a good thing that they don't go stale! (well, greener
> >> oolongs might..). But I found that I can make green oolongs quite
> >> nicely with glass pots, too, with less leaf and longer infusions.

>
> >> What I really need is one of those butane portable burners they
> >> sell in some stores in chinatown. I saw one for only $15 and I'm
> >> still kicking myself that I didn't get it back then.. That will
> >> solve my puerh and oolong problem! -ak

>
> > Oh, well maybe we are on two different pages. Let me step back and
> > kind of qualify what I was saying. For me 3-4 gaiwans is what I am
> > aiming for in a typical brewing, not speed or volume which may be more
> > of where I misunderstood your initial question. I can probably get 4-5
> > gaiwans brewed with one heated pot of water, so probably 400-600ml
> > (14-20oz.) of tea which doesn't really require any time investment
> > beyond the initial "boil" of maybe 5-7 minutes and a couple trips back
> > to the kettle for more water. At most I might reheat the water once
> > more or heat a fresh pot to boil for the last rounds or if I've spread
> > it out over a longer time period and the water has cooled.

>
> I have a gaiwan that's about 1.5-2oz, that might be part of the reason
> why it's more labour intensive, but I feel there's an advantage, too,
> because you can fill it up with enough leaf that when it expands, it
> fills the whole volume and I think that keeps flavor from getting
> stale longer between rounds of infusion. That's another thing I know
> people do with gaiwans but I was never able to - leaving them for a
> relatively long time (i.e. longer than 20mins) between rounds of
> infusion, that is to say, first a few infusions out of the first boiled
> kettle, then some interval longer than 20mins, then a few more infusions
> - and so on: for me, I begin to notice a very, very tiny change of taste
> after about 20 minutes passing (unless I keep making new infusions).
>
> Actually now that I think about it, a larger gaiwan may keep it there
> longer..
>
>
>
> > Something like a Zojirushi small-mid sized kettle might work for you
> > if you can get past the aversion to electric heat as they can be set
> > and keep the water at the right temp and there is no "wasted" time or
> > effort. I can't see butane being preferable to electric as it is going
> > to possibly impart an actual taste or at least fumes which aren't the
> > most pleasant.

>
> I got a Zoji, but it's even worse than a regular electric pot. I suspect
> it's because of slow heating, or maybe because of teflon. It was a waste
> of $120, and by far the most expensive failed tea experiment for me
> (unless you add up all the teas that turned out lousy). Come to think of
> it, my issue with the regular electric kettle may be because of the
> bright, chrome-covered steel on the inside, my regular kettle is a le
> creuset with enamel coating and it works great, I've also had very good
> results with a cheap whistler glass kettle, and I suspect the issue with
> * electric kettle is a consequence of water boiled in it having a slight
> metallic (bright) taste. If you lick a chromed metal surface you'll get
> the same taste, but not for enamel covered steel, and of course not glass..
>
> I had an idea that if I run about a thousand or maybe 500 cycles of
> water through the kettle, the steel will wear down and the taste will
> improve, but that's a lot of electricty wasted, so I might try doing
> that to prep water when cooking.
>
>
>
> > I don't do a ton of Puerh or green oolongs and when I do those tend
> > not to find their way to my gaiwan anyhow. That's mostly the domain of
> > Yixing for me. It took me a considerable amount of time to finally
> > settle on my gaiwans and to proclaim that they have "won." I struggled
> > and went back and forth over time, but for me they finally proved to
> > be the best balance of all aspects and even exceled in a few. My best
> > suggestion would be to not force it and just find your own sweet spot,
> > they may not be for everyone and it may take time to finally click.

>
> > - Dominic

>
> So green pu-erhs work out better in yixings? Really? I somehow thought
> that darker ones would work better in them. In my experience with
> yixings it's too easy to overheat teas in them, and greener oolongs I've
> had are not very tolerant of overheating.
>
> How about "silver needle" puerhs - yixings or gaiwans? I only tried them
> in regular glass pots so far, and they work great. I think of them as
> lighter oolongs even though I've heard they're really green cakes puerhs.
>
> -ak (rainy)


Heh, once again I now realize I didn't specify well... I was meaning
cooked Puerhs. I'm personally not a big fan of uncooked (well I'm not
a huge fan at all, but occasionally try some cooked when the mood
strikes) I do uncooked puerh in my gaiwan exclusively if/when I do
drink it. Most gong fu is done with greener oolongs and various
roasted green oolongs. I've never had a silver needle puerh, so that I
have no comment on. I'm not a white tea fan so even regular silver
needles gets very little time from me. I like the darker more robust
teas in yixing, it can bring out notes other methods subdue and it can
mellow out some other notes.

- Dominic