crisology wrote:
> On Jul 22, 11:19 pm, Dutch > wrote:
>> crisology wrote:
>>> On Jul 22, 3:18 pm, Dutch > wrote:
>
>>>> "Cutting out meat, fish, eggs,
>>>>> dairy foods and cereal grains would result in the loss of many
>>>>> nutrients" neither has anybody else.
>>>> All those foods are loaded with nutrients, what's so difficult to
>>>> understand?
>>> Name 1 nutrient "loss" by excluding those food substitutes.
>> There are literally thousands.
>
> So neither of you are able to name just 1 of the nutritional losses by
> excluding fallback food with available fruit.

You changed the question, you asked which nutrients would be lost by
excluding meat, not which could not be replaced with other foods. The
one that comes to mind immediately is B-12. If fruit is our natural food
it is odd that an essential nutrient cannot be obtained from it.

http://www.explorevitamins.co.uk/Vitamins-and-Meat.html
If you love eating meat you’ll be glad to hear that you may well find it
easier to eat plenty of B vitamins than your vegetarian friends. That’s
because, unlike many other vitamins, the B vitamins are not always
easily found in plant-based foods. So this is one area where eating meat
now and again is likely to help you get your recommended daily
allowance, or RDA, of many essential nutrients. Here’s exactly which B
vitamins you’ll find in your favourite meat dishes.
Vitamin B1, which is good for your heart and nervous system, is found in
a wide variety of meats so you shouldn’t have any trouble getting enough
of this one.
Vitamin B2, which is good for growing bodies and essential in helping
your body release energy from food, is in liver and liver products like
paté. Eating liver seems to have gone out of ‘fashion’ in recent years,
but adding some to your diet now and then can be a healthy choice.
Also found in liver is essential nutrient vitamin B3, which is important
for building the structure of the skin.
Vitamin B5 is a key element in the production of red bloods cells in
your body and you can find it in both chicken and beef. So it’s no old
wives’ tale that if you’re unhealthily pale, a hearty meal of steak or
beef might help put some colour back in your cheeks.
Vitamin B6 is necessary for a healthy nervous system and blood function.
You’ll be eating up plenty when you go for chicken or fish. So if you
are usually a red meat eater, try alternating with these lighter
alternatives now and again. Fish is particularly easy to cook and there
are so many varieties to try. You’re sure to find something you love.
Vitamin B12 helps you release energy from food and is important for the
production of red bloods cells. It’s in meat, fish and dairy products.
Once again, if you enjoy eating meat, you should have few problems
making sure you get enough vitamin B12.
Other Vitamins and Meat
Vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin E and vitamin K are not so readily
available in meat or meat products, although you can get vitamin D from
oily fish. So you will need to serve plenty of vegetables, grains and
fruits with your favourite roast or grilled dish, to ensure you get the
little bit of everything you need for maximum health.

Striking a Healthy Balance... etc

The site author, John Rowlinson is a bio-physicist.

>> By balance I mean including a wide variety of foods in the diet.
>
> So what are the variety of nutrients you are trying to obtain w/
> different types of meat? where are your numbers?

You can look them up for yourself.

Most great apes &
> larger primates eat over 100 different species of fruit/yr plus other
> vegetation. Fruit is the preferred food (digested most easily) among
> all apes when available. As a human with available fruit, what is your
> food species count? Just trying to survive with meat is not adding
> variety of species to a diet- it prevents variety.

Please show where I suggested that we "just trying to survive with meat"

> Meat is meat. There isn't much difference in type of nutrients between
> them.

That is not true. Oily fish such as salmon are very rich in Vitamin D
and Omega 3 fatty acids


> Among plant species there are vast differences in antioxidants,
> nutrient profiles.You are only getting as much variety in xenobiotics
> as you are nutrients in meat.
>
>> Balance does not imply a static state.
>
> Then show some numbers for any of the categories of balance you are
> alluding to and how you obtain that balance using meat as opposed to
> fruit.
>
>>>> . "Red meat", arguably the least desirable of the meat family
>>> Meat family?
>>> Desirable??
>> Am I speaking a foreign language?
>
> I understand you have cravings..I did too.

I was not referring to cravings, the context of my remarks should have
made that clear. By "desirable" I meant "nutritionally desirable". The
kind of desirability you are referring to is totally subjective
therefore it could not have been what I meant.
>
>>> science is
>>> available to show meat is not only not desirable but unhealthy.
>> A lot of science shows that meat is highly nutritious in the context of
>> a balanced diet. It depends on your pre-conceptions.
>
> Meat is carcinogenic regardless of your preconceptions.You haven't
> defined the mysterious "context" "of a balanced diet."

A balanced diet is a diet which contains a wide variety of foods which
contain different groups of nutrients, so that what may be lacking in
one can be obtained in others.

>
>>> But let's try..
>>> "women who had one-and-a-half servings of red meat a day had nearly
>>> double the risk for hormone receptor-positive cancer compared with
>>> women who ate less than three servings of red meat per week."http://
>>> info.med.yale.edu/yfp/news/breast_107.html
>>> Your response?
>> That is exactly what I was talking about before. "Red meat" is presented
>> as representative of all meat
>
> So you will not defend red meat and admit.red meat is unhealthy. We
> agree on that much?

No, red meat is unhealthy if one consumes too much of it as many people
do. Water can be poisonous if you drink too much. You could probably
overdose on potassium if you ate nothing but bananas. An occasional
small organic steak is perfectly healthy.

>> beef steak is a completely different food than a halibut steak.
>
> You said, "meat is highly nutritious in the context of a balanced
> diet." You use no numbers when talking about balance so that's a non-
> issue

People don't "eat by numbers".

and you introduce a mysterious "context" to eat meat on top of
> the non-falsifiable balance cravings.

The context is a diet which is focused on fruit, vegetables, healthy
grains, dairy and selected meat products.

The only context I'm aware of is
> if you have no food available, then resort to eating meat, otherwise
> it's a nutritional compromise. to available natural food.

Your language reveals your dietary extremism. There's no such thing as
"natural foods".