Jonathan Ball wrote:
>
> frlpwr wrote:
> > Jonathan Ball wrote:
> >
> > (snip)
> >
> >>Beef cattle are not slaughtered in farm country. Stop
> >>lying.
> >
> >
> > The Big Four meat-packers, (ConAgra, IBP, Excel, National Beef),
> > slaughter 84% of American cattle. Their plants are concentrated in the
> > non-union _farm_ states of Nebraska, Kansas, Texas, Colorado and Iowa.
>
> The plants are in cities, not in "farm country".

You are a classic example of the clueless urbanite you so despise.

Here's a list of Tyson (formerly IBP) plants. You will note only
Amarillo and Boise could be considered "cities" and this only with a
stretch of your Southern California imagination (just kidding about the
imagination part).

http://www.tysonfoodsinc.com/freshmeats/locations/

> > (snip)
> >
> >>>your #7 is outrageous. what exactly are you thinking of? A vegetable
> >>>crop that kills more animals than meat?
> >>
> >>Fields are disced, killing animals.

> > Conservation minded farmers use low-till or no-till systems.
>
> Most farmers, including the ones who supply most of the
> food you eat, do not practice that.

The food I buy comes from Rainbow General which only carries food items
produced in an environment-friendly way. Farming methods that are good
for the environment are good for field animals, it's as simple as that.

I've already mentioned a number of times that I feel all farmers should
be compelled to practice conservation farming through a system of
progressively more punitive
fines, including eventual property seizure.

(snip)> >
> >
> >>and when the crops are harvested,
> >>heavy machinery again drives through the fields,
> >
> > Don't you ever get off the freeway, Ball? A good portion of
> > California's fruits and vegetables are hand-harvested.
>
> High-value things like strawberries and asparagus,
> sure.

The list is much more extensive, including beans, tomatoes, squash,
olives, grapes, avocados, apricots, apples, citrus fruits, all berries,
melons and on and on.

> Rice, on the other hand, is lethal.

Beckwith asked about a "vegetable crop" that kills more animals than
livestock farming. Rice isn't a vegetable, dummy.

Further, hand-harvested wild rice is readily available, even in Safeway
stores.

> What are the relative shares of strawberries, asparagus and rice
> in the typical "vegan" diet, skank?

What's the "typical vegan diet", ****head? Include verifiable evidence
in your answer, please.

> > (snip)
> >
> >>If "vegans" believe they are making a legitimate
> >>ethical choice by not eating meat and other animal
> >>products in order not to cause animal suffering, their
> >>lifestyle IS wrong and bogus and based on a logical
> >>fallacy.

> > Strawman.
>
> Nope.

Yes. You are arguing against a non-existent belief.

> They commit the fallacy of Denying the
> Antecedent, as well as the vilest sort of hypocrisy.
>
> > Vegans believe by not eating meat and purchasing other animal
> > products they are not contributing to the suffering of _farmed animals_
> > and they're not.
>
> Irrelevant, and you know it, conformist bitch.

Highly relevant to your thrashing of a strawman.
>
> "vegans" have no principle that justifies worrying
> about animals they might eat, and not worrying about
> those killed in the course of producing their food.

Please provide a quote from any vegan on this group that shows s)he
doesn't worry about field animals killed in the course of agricultural
production. Nash might say he doesn't feel responsible for them, but I
bet he abhors them, nonetheless.
>
> > For the record, because I purchase enormous quantities of slaughterhouse
> > waste in the form of catfood, I am, technically, not a vegan. How does
> > this CONFORM to your vision of me as a vegan CONFORMIST?
>
> Your massive conformism isn't about some single
> isolated exception.

I have a whole list of exceptions to my supposed "negative conformism",

> It has to do with your overall
> conformist-to-unconvential lifestyle.

You are so full of shit. How many times do I have to tell you? I have
a job. I own a house. I own three other parcels of land. I own two
vehicles. I have insurance up the ass. I have a pension and personal
savings plans. I pay taxes. I vote. I make charitable contributions.
I buy products I don't need. I vacation. I entertain. I garden. I
marry. I'm so much like you I could puke.

(snip)

> You are the conformist, not I.

You doth protest too much.