FoodBanter.com - View Single Post

wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:55:21 GMT, wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:33:56 GMT, Gary Beckwith > wrote:
>>>
>>>>you are full of vegan baloney!
>>>>
>>>>first of all eating vegan DOES help animals because it decreases demand
>>>>for meat.
>>>
>>> Which animals does it help, and how does it help them?
>>>
>>>>second, vegan is not just an eating habit. it is a way of life. many
>>>>vegans don't just refrain from eating meat, they also contribute to
>>>>organizations such as Farm Sanctuary or PETA, that have many programs
>>>>that directly affect the welfare of animals.
>>>
>>> Veg*nism itself does nothing to help animals, regardless of
>>>what other things a person does.
>>
>>Meat eating does nothing to help animals, either,
>>regardless of what other things a person does.
>
> Firstly it provides billions of them with life.

That is not a "help" to farm animals.

>
>
>>>>now, i have to take particular issue with your portrayal of the meat
>>>>industry providing a good life for many animals. That simply is NOT
>>>>true. The vast majority of animals raised for meat live HORRIBLE
>>>>lives. They are confined to very small areas, pumped with hormones,
>>>>body parts removed, and killed in very painful and inhumane ways. Do you
>>>>know how a beef cattle is killed? Look it up, it's disgusting. I know,
>>>>I live in farm country and I see it every day. Even dairy cows are
>>>>often confined to indoor barns and never get to roam. I drive by a
>>>>dairy farm almost every day, that is basically a huge metal building
>>>>full of cows that can't even turn around. I've never seen them let
>>>>outside in years.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some of them have decent lives and some of them don't.
>>
>>That's merely your opinion, and it is based on ignorance.
>
>
> It's based on observation.

It's based on ignorance. You are unqualified to judge
the quality of their lives, and you also are a shill.

>
>>>If you think they all have HORRIBLE lives then you're being no
>>>more realistic about it than someone who thinks they all have
>>>decent lives.
>>
>>If one thinks that it is horrible to kill an animal for
>>human consumption, then they indeed all have horrible
>>lives.
>
>
> Well we don't all believe it is horrible to kill them for food.

But vegans do believe it, and you are unable to counter
their belief.

> So far no one has been able to explain exactly what is wrong
> with killing animals for human consumption btw,

So far, you have been utterly unable to explain what is
wrong with preventing them from getting to live. You
clearly believe something IS wrong with it, but you are
unable to say what it is.

>
>
>>>>your #7 is outrageous. what exactly are you thinking of? A vegetable
>>>>crop that kills more animals than meat?
>>>
>>>
>>> From the life and death of a grass raised steer people can
>>>get over 500 servings of beef.
>>
>>You are a massive hypocrite. You do not eat grass-fed
>>beef. You do not make any effort at all to choose meat
>>from sources that treated animals better than the
>>average for their industries. You buy whatever beef,
>>chicken, pork and other that Piggly Wiggly has in
>>shrink-wrapped packages. You are not an ethical meat
>>eater.
>
>
> It doesn't matter what I do or don't eat.

It matters very much. It shows that you are a massive
hypocrite.

>
>
>>>A few meals of tofu are likely
>>>to involve more deaths than 500 meals from grass raised beef.
>>
>>You have no support for that claim. It's idle,
>>ignorant speculation.
>
>
> Your failure to appreciate facts like that show *without any
> doubt!!* that you care more about promoting veg*nism than you
> do about human influence on animals.

It shows nothing of the sort.

YOU have made a claim that involves a comparison, and
you not only have no numbers to justify the conclusion,
you have no theoretical knowledge that would make your
idle speculation likely to be accurate.

>
>
>>>From the life and death of a grass raised dairy cow people can
>>>get thousands of dairy servings. A few servings of rice milk are
>>>likely to involve more deaths than a thousand servings of grass
>>>raised cow milk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>you should get your facts straight before you state them as "facts".
>>>>
>>>>It sounds to me like you are just another meat eater trying to justify
>>>>your cruel habit. Virtually all your statements are completely false.
>>>
>>>
>>> They are all true,
>>
>>One of them is completely insignificant: the one about
>>the meat and dairy industries "providing life" for farm
>>animals.
>
>
> Well the next time I'm around a herd of cattle I'll tell them that
> their lives are completely insignificant,

I don't doubt that you would try to tell cattle
something like that.

"providing life" for farm animals does not create moral
bonus points. It is insignificant in the discussion.

>
>
>>>as was the main point which is that there
>>>are quite a few significan facts that you veg*ns do *not* want
>>>people to consider.
>>
>>Vegans not giving any consideration to this stupid
>>"providing life" argument is not out of a fear of what
>>might be discovered. It is based on a full-knowledge
>>awareness that there is nothing to consider.
>
>
> Then there's no loss when they are killed,

Yes, there is. There is the loss of life of a living
creature. As always, you keep getting confused between
the value of a potential for life, before an animal is
born, and the value of an actual life, after an animal
is born. No one else is confused about this. You are
confused. You give evidence of extremely weak intellect.