FoodBanter.com - View Single Post

wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:33:56 GMT, Gary Beckwith > wrote:
>
>
>>you are full of vegan baloney!
>>
>>first of all eating vegan DOES help animals because it decreases demand
>>for meat.
>
>
> Which animals does it help, and how does it help them?
>
>
>>second, vegan is not just an eating habit. it is a way of life. many
>>vegans don't just refrain from eating meat, they also contribute to
>>organizations such as Farm Sanctuary or PETA, that have many programs
>>that directly affect the welfare of animals.
>
>
> Veg*nism itself does nothing to help animals, regardless of
> what other things a person does.

Meat eating does nothing to help animals, either,
regardless of what other things a person does.

>
>
>>now, i have to take particular issue with your portrayal of the meat
>>industry providing a good life for many animals. That simply is NOT
>>true. The vast majority of animals raised for meat live HORRIBLE
>>lives. They are confined to very small areas, pumped with hormones,
>>body parts removed, and killed in very painful and inhumane ways. Do you
>>know how a beef cattle is killed? Look it up, it's disgusting. I know,
>>I live in farm country and I see it every day. Even dairy cows are
>>often confined to indoor barns and never get to roam. I drive by a
>>dairy farm almost every day, that is basically a huge metal building
>>full of cows that can't even turn around. I've never seen them let
>>outside in years.
>
>
> Some of them have decent lives and some of them don't.

That's merely your opinion, and it is based on ignorance.

> If you think they all have HORRIBLE lives then you're being no
> more realistic about it than someone who thinks they all have
> decent lives.

If one thinks that it is horrible to kill an animal for
human consumption, then they indeed all have horrible
lives.

>
>
>>your #7 is outrageous. what exactly are you thinking of? A vegetable
>>crop that kills more animals than meat?
>
>
> From the life and death of a grass raised steer people can
> get over 500 servings of beef.

You are a massive hypocrite. You do not eat grass-fed
beef. You do not make any effort at all to choose meat
from sources that treated animals better than the
average for their industries. You buy whatever beef,
chicken, pork and other that Piggly Wiggly has in
shrink-wrapped packages. You are not an ethical meat
eater.

> A few meals of tofu are likely
> to involve more deaths than 500 meals from grass raised beef.

You have no support for that claim. It's idle,
ignorant speculation.

> From the life and death of a grass raised dairy cow people can
> get thousands of dairy servings. A few servings of rice milk are
> likely to involve more deaths than a thousand servings of grass
> raised cow milk.
>
>
>>you should get your facts straight before you state them as "facts".
>>
>>It sounds to me like you are just another meat eater trying to justify
>>your cruel habit. Virtually all your statements are completely false.
>
>
> They are all true,

One of them is completely insignificant: the one about
the meat and dairy industries "providing life" for farm
animals.

> as was the main point which is that there
> are quite a few significan facts that you veg*ns do *not* want
> people to consider.

Vegans not giving any consideration to this stupid
"providing life" argument is not out of a fear of what
might be discovered. It is based on a full-knowledge
awareness that there is nothing to consider.