Gary Beckwith wrote:

> you are full of vegan baloney!
>
> first of all eating vegan DOES help animals because it decreases demand
> for meat.

How does that help any currently living farm animals?

>
> second, vegan is not just an eating habit. it is a way of life. many
> vegans don't just refrain from eating meat, they also contribute to
> organizations such as Farm Sanctuary or PETA, that have many programs
> that directly affect the welfare of animals.

But a meat eater who is concerned with animal welfare
could do the same thing, and undoubtedly there are
"vegans" who aren't members of any such organizations.
Being "vegan" has nothing to do with it.

>
> now, i have to take particular issue with your portrayal of the meat
> industry providing a good life for many animals. That simply is NOT
> true. The vast majority of animals raised for meat live HORRIBLE
> lives. They are confined to very small areas, pumped with hormones,
> body parts removed, and killed in very painful and inhumane ways.

Prove any of this. Get busy.

> Do you
> know how a beef cattle is killed? Look it up, it's disgusting. I know,
> I live in farm country and I see it every day.

Beef cattle are not slaughtered in farm country. Stop
lying.

> Even dairy cows are
> often confined to indoor barns and never get to roam. I drive by a
> dairy farm almost every day, that is basically a huge metal building
> full of cows that can't even turn around. I've never seen them let
> outside in years.

You've never been inside the building, either, so you
don't know what you're talking about.

>
> your #7 is outrageous. what exactly are you thinking of? A vegetable
> crop that kills more animals than meat?

Fields are disced, and when the crops are harvested,
heavy machinery again drives through the fields,
killing animals.

>
> you should get your facts straight before you state them as "facts".
>
> It sounds to me like you are just another meat eater trying to justify
> your cruel habit.

You're right about that particular poster, David
Harrison, better known as ****wit. However, some of
the points he raises are correct and serve to disprove
"vegan" claims. In particular, his claims about
animals being killed in the course of producing
vegetables are correct.

What you should disregard is his fatuous, ****witted
claim about how raising meat animals "provides them
with life". It is trivially true, but it is not a
reason to raise them, and he is the only loon who
thinks it is.

> Virtually all your statements are completely false.

No, quite a lot of them are true.

> If you do some research, read some books, you'll get the real facts.

It's obvious to one and all that you do not practice
what you preach.

> But then I suppose you'll turn on your blinders and then start talking
> about how vegetables feel just as much pain when they are killed so
> there's no reason to be vegetarian. I've actually heard that one
> before.
>
> Look, if you want to eat meat, go ahead and do it. No one is stopping
> you. Don't try to tell vegetarians that their lifestyle is wrong,
> though.

If "vegans" believe they are making a legitimate
ethical choice by not eating meat and other animal
products in order not to cause animal suffering, their
lifestyle IS wrong and bogus and based on a logical
fallacy. "vegans" cause massive animal suffering with
their "lifestyle"; they just don't eat the dead animals.

> Especially if you are going to make your argument is completely
> untrue.

That is not a proper English sentence.