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jim jim is offline
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Default Inoculation, chemicals and water quantity calculations for asecond wine...

On Feb 6, 10:55 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> On Feb 5, 6:29 am, jim > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 5, 10:07 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:

>
> > > On Feb 2, 5:13 am, jim > wrote:

>
> > > > On Feb 2, 9:21 am, Luc Volders > wrote:

>
> > > > > jim wrote:
> > > > > > Firstly, can I presume that the fruit in the straining bags will
> > > > > > contain enough active yeast cells to inoculate the new batch or should
> > > > > > I plan to add fermenting wine from the first batch back in to jump
> > > > > > start the second? I am guessing it will be self inoculating.

>
> > > > > I have made second wines from elderberry frequently but I did it
> > > > > differently. Each time I pressed the pulp I would put the pulp
> > > > > in the freezer. After a while I had a whole lot of frozen pulp
> > > > > to make a large secondary batch.

>
> > > > > I then re-inoculated the pulp with a starter.

>
> > > > > But as you are making it directly from the pulp there
> > > > > will certainly be enough active yeast cells in the pulp
> > > > > for starting the second wine.

>
> > > > > > Secondly - if the straining bags from the first wine are enough to
> > > > > > start the inoculation - would I be fine using lukewarm water rather
> > > > > > than hot?

>
> > > > > Using hot water will kill the living yeast cells.
> > > > > So use water having a temperature of max 25 degrees celsius.

>
> > > > > > If not, I guess I'd be into a re-inoculation anyway. No
> > > > > > big deal since I could keep a little of the must from the first wine
> > > > > > by, in order to re-inoculate. Am I also correct that there is nothing
> > > > > > to gain by adding more pectic enzyme the second time around, since the
> > > > > > fruit has already been treated?

>
> > > > > I never used pectic enzymes on my seconds.

>
> > > > > I did however just wrote a small article on my web-log
> > > > > (http://www.wijnmaker.blogspot.com/) that proved the use of pectic
> > > > > enzymes.

>
> > > > > However I did some more test which I will write another article on
> > > > > in the near future. One of the test showed me that pectic
> > > > > enzymes did not work in an active fermentation. I do have to conduct
> > > > > more tests on this but for now I think therefore that adding pectic enzymes
> > > > > would do nothing at this stage.

>
> > > > > > Thirdly should I make much allowance for volume leeched from the
> > > > > > fruit's remaining flesh or will most of the leechable flesh/juice be
> > > > > > gone?

>
> > > > > Most will be gone in the first batch.
> > > > > There will be a lot less sediment from lees.

>
> > > > > > Many thanks in advance, any other tips gained from experience in this
> > > > > > method would also be well received!

>
> > > > > > Jim

>
> > > > > I used a one on one mix. So one liter water for 1 kilo pulp.
> > > > > But then I used pure elderberry pulp. In most books it is
> > > > > advised to use half a liter water on 1 kilo pulp.
> > > > > So err on the safe side.
> > > > > Make a light wine from this. Something about 11% alcohol.
> > > > > The elderberries have enough tannin to make a beautiful second wine.

>
> > > > > Monitor color and taste closely. I had my seconds pulp
> > > > > fermenting for no more as 3 days. Most color and flavors
> > > > > will be in the first batch. The second wine gets the left overs.

>
> > > > > Luc

>
> > > > > --http://www.wijnmaker.blogspot.com/

>
> > > > Thanks Luc, most helpful - and thanks for the pointers to your blog.
> > > > I have often enjoyed your output (most considerate to include
> > > > translations as well as the original Dutch).

>
> > > > If the must seems very weak from the pulp that I have I guess I might
> > > > go to plan B and make a different wine. I guess I could use the pulp
> > > > with a few more raisins and some dried sloes to make an interesting
> > > > hybrid. Otherwise I will bear these pointers in mind and make the
> > > > light elderberry/blackberry.

>
> > > > Kind regards, Jim

>
> > > Jim,
> > > I have only made a second wine once and from grapes but I used 1/3 the
> > > volume of the original must, in other words once I pressed the wine I
> > > guess-timated the volume of skins and added water sugar and acid to
> > > bring it up to 1/3 of the original volume. It's surprisingly
> > > drinkable; thin, but not insipid. I expected to have 5 gallons of
> > > vinegar stock, it's not.

>
> > > Joe

>
> > Thanks for that Joe

>
> > By your reckoning it sounds like I will be on track to make a third 5
> > gallon. I will be using the pulp bags from the two 5 gallon batches I
> > have going at the moment, plus another 2.5KG (5.5lb) of dark berries
> > and forest fruits and a litre of grape concentrate to make it. I am
> > glad I bought the extra fruit to add in though! I can cope with it
> > not being as dark and rich as the first two will be, I think it will
> > be very good all the same.

>
> > The one thing that crosses my mind though is that you only made a
> > second wine once Perhaps it was a little too 'whatever' to bother
> > doing often when you have access to good juice and grapes?

>
> > Jim

>
> Jim,
> It was pure laziness and bad experiences with others 'second wines'.
> I have tasted some pretty bad wines; I didn't know homemade wine could
> actually taste like wine until I was older and my brother started
> making it. We were used to homemade wine tasting like bad vinegar
> mixed with cheap whiskey because that is what we were exposed to
> around here.
>
> I travel for work so sometimes i don't have time to make enough from
> grapes to make a second worthwhile.
>
> Joe


Ahhhh. Thanks for the update Joe, I always love some backstory

I will probably chart the second wine's progress in this thread. I
have just got the fruit in sugar water prepared so I can campden /
pectic enzyme it a day or two in advance of adding it to the pulp bags
from the first wine primaries. I am expecting them to be ready to go
to secondary in 2 or 3 days...

Exciting times,

Jim