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Old 05-02-2008, 11:29 AM posted to rec.crafts.winemaking
jim jim is offline
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Default Inoculation, chemicals and water quantity calculations for asecond wine...

On Feb 5, 10:07 am, Joe Sallustio wrote:
On Feb 2, 5:13 am, jim wrote:



On Feb 2, 9:21 am, Luc Volders wrote:


jim wrote:
Firstly, can I presume that the fruit in the straining bags will
contain enough active yeast cells to inoculate the new batch or should
I plan to add fermenting wine from the first batch back in to jump
start the second? I am guessing it will be self inoculating.


I have made second wines from elderberry frequently but I did it
differently. Each time I pressed the pulp I would put the pulp
in the freezer. After a while I had a whole lot of frozen pulp
to make a large secondary batch.


I then re-inoculated the pulp with a starter.


But as you are making it directly from the pulp there
will certainly be enough active yeast cells in the pulp
for starting the second wine.


Secondly - if the straining bags from the first wine are enough to
start the inoculation - would I be fine using lukewarm water rather
than hot?


Using hot water will kill the living yeast cells.
So use water having a temperature of max 25 degrees celsius.


If not, I guess I'd be into a re-inoculation anyway. No
big deal since I could keep a little of the must from the first wine
by, in order to re-inoculate. Am I also correct that there is nothing
to gain by adding more pectic enzyme the second time around, since the
fruit has already been treated?


I never used pectic enzymes on my seconds.


I did however just wrote a small article on my web-log
(http://www.wijnmaker.blogspot.com/) that proved the use of pectic
enzymes.


However I did some more test which I will write another article on
in the near future. One of the test showed me that pectic
enzymes did not work in an active fermentation. I do have to conduct
more tests on this but for now I think therefore that adding pectic enzymes
would do nothing at this stage.


Thirdly should I make much allowance for volume leeched from the
fruit's remaining flesh or will most of the leechable flesh/juice be
gone?


Most will be gone in the first batch.
There will be a lot less sediment from lees.


Many thanks in advance, any other tips gained from experience in this
method would also be well received!


Jim


I used a one on one mix. So one liter water for 1 kilo pulp.
But then I used pure elderberry pulp. In most books it is
advised to use half a liter water on 1 kilo pulp.
So err on the safe side.
Make a light wine from this. Something about 11% alcohol.
The elderberries have enough tannin to make a beautiful second wine.


Monitor color and taste closely. I had my seconds pulp
fermenting for no more as 3 days. Most color and flavors
will be in the first batch. The second wine gets the left overs.


Luc


--http://www.wijnmaker.blogspot.com/


Thanks Luc, most helpful - and thanks for the pointers to your blog.
I have often enjoyed your output (most considerate to include
translations as well as the original Dutch).


If the must seems very weak from the pulp that I have I guess I might
go to plan B and make a different wine. I guess I could use the pulp
with a few more raisins and some dried sloes to make an interesting
hybrid. Otherwise I will bear these pointers in mind and make the
light elderberry/blackberry.


Kind regards, Jim


Jim,
I have only made a second wine once and from grapes but I used 1/3 the
volume of the original must, in other words once I pressed the wine I
guess-timated the volume of skins and added water sugar and acid to
bring it up to 1/3 of the original volume. It's surprisingly
drinkable; thin, but not insipid. I expected to have 5 gallons of
vinegar stock, it's not.

Joe


Thanks for that Joe

By your reckoning it sounds like I will be on track to make a third 5
gallon. I will be using the pulp bags from the two 5 gallon batches I
have going at the moment, plus another 2.5KG (5.5lb) of dark berries
and forest fruits and a litre of grape concentrate to make it. I am
glad I bought the extra fruit to add in though! I can cope with it
not being as dark and rich as the first two will be, I think it will
be very good all the same.

The one thing that crosses my mind though is that you only made a
second wine once Perhaps it was a little too 'whatever' to bother
doing often when you have access to good juice and grapes?

Jim