I'm not worried about the derision. What worries me is advice given
without any examples to back it up. Statements like " I wouldn't do
that" without a reason why just doesn't cut it. Reasons like "That
doesn't sound too appetizing" is not very scientific.

Bob

On Oct 31, 10:16 am, jim > wrote:
> Sadly there seems to be a degree of derision on this thread as well as
> the useful opinions and information. The information is useful, the
> derision is not.
>
> I am not sure myself as to whether all byproducts of bacterial
> spoilage are neutralised when the alcohol levels rise high enough to
> kill the infection. I couldn't find much online about it and I don't
> know whether many of these byproducts are poisonous either.
> Information and opinion given by long-term winemakers on this thread
> is interesting though and does help to form a strategy as well as
> opinion.
>
> I'd be interesting to hear more on this subject. Perhaps the lack of
> testimony from people quoting a negative experience shows that there
> is rarely a problem with procedures suggested. Perhaps it just shows
> that they haven't read this thread yet.
>
> Jim (a newb)
>
> On Oct 31, 2:28 pm, wrote:
>
> > You can never have enough info. If she makes a decision based on the
> > limited info presented here, I will guarantee it will be an ill-
> > informed decision.
>
> > Bob
>
> > On Oct 30, 11:56 am, "Paul E. Lehmann" > wrote:
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
> > > >> guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
> > > >> things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
> > > >> wine police I am merely making suggestions.
>
> > > > I'm making suggestions myself based on my
> > > > observations and experiences combined with info
> > > > given to me by a good winemaker. I'm not
> > > > suggesting drinking bad stuff, I'm suggesting a
> > > > method to fix it.
>
> > > > "Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
> > > > Of
> > > >> course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
> > > >> never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
> > > >> green mold
> > > >> growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
> > > >> errr - beverage making "
>
> > > > I haven't even heard of anyone getting sick.
> > > > Like I said, I'm suggesting ways to fix it not
> > > > ways to drink it.
>
> > > I think Cathy has enough information to make her
> > > decision.
>
> > > > "On Oct 26, 11:54 am, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > The two Paul's in this thread would make good
> > > >> > Republican Presidential
> > > >> > candidates.
>
> > > >> I would have to change my party affiliation
> > > >> before I did that
>
> > > >> > Instilling IRRATIONAL FEAR into
> > > >> > anyone who ever came across mold or a bad
> > > >> > smelling wine.
>
> > > >> If you want to drink bad smelling "wine", be my
> > > >> guest. If you want to risk contaminating other
> > > >> things in your winery, go ahead. I am not the
> > > >> wine police I am merely making suggestions.
>
> > > >> > On the contrary, there are no
> > > >> > known pathogens that exist in wine.
>
> > > >> I don't believe the "cider" had enough sugar to
> > > >> make "wine". The words we
>
> > > >> .."temp was bad and we had green mold on top of
> > > >> the cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
> > > >> itself, no yeast or other additives)."
>
> > > >> > It's the
> > > >> > reason the Board of Health exempts wineries
> > > >> > from reqiurements of section 20C. Has anyone
> > > >> > on this board heard of anyone getting sick
> > > >> > from bad wine? Anyone?
>
> > > >> Sick, yes, deadly - life threatening ill no.
> > > >> Of course, to the best of my knowledge, I have
> > > >> never drunk a low alcohol beverage that had
> > > >> green mold
> > > >> growing on it. To each his own. Happy wine -
> > > >> errr - beverage making
>
> > > >> > Frederick mentioned the push down
> > > >> > of the cap. Both Pauls have pushed those
> > > >> > "toxins" down into the wine hundreds of times
> > > >> > and didn't even know it. Those toxins are
> > > >> > always there. Even SO2 doesn't kill them. SO2
> > > >> > puts them in suspended animation until the
> > > >> > SO2 levels drop. Bleach would kill them but
> > > >> > then there really would be "toxins" in the
> > > >> > wine. How many "toxins" have people drunk in
> > > >> > this world when the SO2 levels of the wine
> > > >> > they are drinking become low?? Just because
> > > >> > you can't see them doesn't mean they are not
> > > >> > there and it's ironic that the cap keeps
> > > >> > getting pushed into the fermenting must to
> > > >> > kill them. Maybe the fermentation does do
> > > >> > something. Imagine that.
>
> > > >> > Bob
>
> > > >> > On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Paul Arthur
> > > >> > > wrote:
> > > >> >> On 2007-10-25, Cathy Boer >
> > > >> >> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > After reading the comments about mold in
> > > >> >> > primary fermentation stage; we started 4
> > > >> >> > gallons of apple cider but the temp was
> > > >> >> > bad and we had green mold on top of the
> > > >> >> > cider (just apple juice let to ferment by
> > > >> >> > itself, no yeast or other additives).
>
> > > >> >> > We ended up throwing it down the drain,
> > > >> >> > but could we have saved the juice by
> > > >> >> > adding yeast???
>
> > > >> >> > Any comments/help would be appreciated.
> > > >> >> > We're new at all this stuff!
>
> > > >> >> It depends on how advanced the mold is. If
> > > >> >> you catch it fairly quickly and it's only on
> > > >> >> top, you can rack the must out from under
> > > >> >> the mold (leaving behind a couple of inches
> > > >> >> to make sure you don't carry
> > > >> >> the mold into the new fermenter) and pitch
> > > >> >> yeast. If it's been growing for a while
> > > >> >> toss it, as the mold produces toxins that
> > > >> >> will have spread throughout the must and
> > > >> >> cannot be easily removed.
>
> > > >> >> --
> > > >> >> I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!