This is my first year of making wine. The wine is from a grape vine of what
seems to be a cross between Isabella and Couderc Noir. I bought some lightly
toasted wood chips to add to my wine. I do not want to over do the chips, so
what would you recommend as to the amount of chips used per 5 gallons and
how long they should be left to soak in the wine.

Roy Boy wrote:
> This is my first year of making wine. The wine is from a grape vine of what
> seems to be a cross between Isabella and Couderc Noir. I bought some lightly
> toasted wood chips to add to my wine. I do not want to over do the chips, so
> what would you recommend as to the amount of chips used per 5 gallons and
> how long they should be left to soak in the wine.

That reall depends on a personal taste. Chips will be spent in 2 weeks
or so, so start with a small addition, leave for 2 weeks and taste and
then add a bit more until you get to the taste you like. 1 ounce should
be a good starting point.

Pp

Seems to me I've heard +/- 2 1/2 oz for 5 gallons. Chips give up their
flavor/tannin quickly, so you would want to theif a sample after a
couple days, then rack or filter you wine when you get to the desired
taste. Cubes probably give you more control since the work much slower.

Good advice from pp.
My current red wine from mixed FA hybrids has been oaked with a total
of 260 grams (3&1/2 cups)of toasted French chips per 5 gal. Half went in
before fermentation, as chips, half after, in the form of oak tea. I
used the tea because it was easier to measure it out in a series of
bench tests with smaller volumes. Even with the tea, the intensity of
the oak changes with time, so be sure to monitor the taste several
months after the addition. You may find that you wish to add a bit
later, which is easy with the tea.
It's my feeling that oak additions after fermentation are more prominent
in the finished wine than additions before. I used to feel that
fermenting with the chips gave a smoother result, but now I lean to the
belief that it's mostly just weaker tasting for some reason.
Best advice is to go slow and do trial additions to small quantities.

--


Mike MTM, Cokesbury, New Jersey, USA



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"Mike McGeough" > wrote in message
...
>
> Good advice from pp.
> My current red wine from mixed FA hybrids has been oaked with a total of
> 260 grams (3&1/2 cups)of toasted French chips per 5 gal. Half went in
> before fermentation, as chips, half after, in the form of oak tea. I used
> the tea because it was easier to measure it out in a series of bench tests
> with smaller volumes. Even with the tea, the intensity of the oak changes
> with time, so be sure to monitor the taste several months after the
> addition. You may find that you wish to add a bit later, which is easy
> with the tea.
> It's my feeling that oak additions after fermentation are more prominent
> in the finished wine than additions before. I used to feel that fermenting
> with the chips gave a smoother result, but now I lean to the belief that
> it's mostly just weaker tasting for some reason.
> Best advice is to go slow and do trial additions to small quantities.
>
> --
>
>
> Mike MTM, Cokesbury, New Jersey, USA
>
>
Mike,

I am assuming that what you mean by a tea is hot (100f to boiling?) water
that the wood is soaked in (X amount of time?) then poured into the wine. If
so at what temperature should I heat the water and how long should the wood
soak?

Roy

I just rinse the chips or cubes (beans) and use them as is. I have
heard of making a tea; the way it was explained to me was to use cheap
vodka and the oak. The idea was to let the chips soak and just pour
off the vodka. I would follow whatever Mike does since it works for
him though.

I think you have a lot of control with chips or beans, just use more or
less. I have noticed that heavy toast beans do not extract in the same
way as medium or medium heavy; I will go back to medium heavy next
order. The type of oak and toasting makes a difference; American and
European are noticeably different and taste different at different
toast levels too. There are a couple of variables besides the
quantity.

I really don't care for the sawdust as an FYI; I like some toasting in
the oak.

Joe



> I am assuming that what you mean by a tea is hot (100f to boiling?) water
> that the wood is soaked in (X amount of time?) then poured into the wine. If
> so at what temperature should I heat the water and how long should the wood
> soak?
>
> Roy

Joe Sallustio wrote "I think you have a lot of control with chips or beans,
just use more or less."

I agree with Joe. I purchased French Oak chips from World Cooperage to use
in some Chardonnay I'm making from home grown grapes. I started with the
recommended dose of 7 to 10 pounds per 1000 gallons (I'm making about 7
gallons) during active fermentation . When I racked the wine off the lees I
could not detect any oak flavor. So, as the winter proceeds I'll just add
chips, wait a few weeks, taste and add more if needed until I have a nicely
oaked wine.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas

"William Frazier" > wrote in message
...
> Joe Sallustio wrote "I think you have a lot of control with chips or
> beans, just use more or less."
>
> I agree with Joe. I purchased French Oak chips from World Cooperage to
> use in some Chardonnay I'm making from home grown grapes. I started with
> the recommended dose of 7 to 10 pounds per 1000 gallons (I'm making about
> 7 gallons) during active fermentation . When I racked the wine off the
> lees I could not detect any oak flavor. So, as the winter proceeds I'll
> just add chips, wait a few weeks, taste and add more if needed until I
> have a nicely oaked wine.
>
> Bill Frazier
> Olathe, Kansas

Thanks for the info, I just do not want to overdo it and have something that
I will have to wait years for it to mellow out if it does.

Roy,
That's about it. I put 3 cups of medium toast French chips (225 grams)
into 5 cups of water and simmered for 10-15 minutes. After straining, it
yielded 4 cups of strong, tannic tea. I found that refrigerating it for
a day caused the bitter tannins to precipitate out, and the resulting
clear liquid went was used at a rate of 1/2 or 1 cup per 5 gal carboy,
depending on which style I was aiming for. There was already the
equivalent of about 1 cup of dry chips in each carboy throughout
fermentation. The dry chips had far less impact than the tea, but I
still suspect that it's good to have some oak in during the
fermentation, if only to let the yeast do something different & create
added complexity. Who can tell?

HTH

--
Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA



--
Mike MTM, Cokesbury, NJ, USA

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Roy,
That's good thinking; it's one reason I don't like the sawdust form. I
not only over-oaked with it, the taste, for lack of a better term was
greenish. I definitely overdid that batch. Time did not heal it, it
only made it somewhat drinkable. I ended up making most of it into
vinegar, which turned out really well.

Joe