Hello. I hope someone can indulge a complete beginner and help me out
with a few questions on some plum wine I've recently made.

1) The fermentation finished about three weeks ago. I've racked the
wine three times since and now, although I'm getting very little
sediment at the bottom of the container, the wine is still very cloudy.
What would be the best way to clear it? I've tried pectolase, both
before fermentation started and also a bit afterwards. I've also added
a small quantity of bentonite. Is there anything I've missed/done wrong
or am I just being impatient?
2) I made about 22 litres and the liquid is in a large carboy which
could hold maybe another 10 litres or so. Is there any risk to the wine
in there being so much air sitting on top of the wine while it clears?
The process of racking is adding fresh air ro the carboy. Will this air
oxidise the wine or affect its flavour detrimentally?
3) I read that the wine should be fermented in the dark which I
complied with. Does it need to remain in the dark while it clears?
4) Does the wine have to be completely clear before I bottle it or does
the clearing process continue after bottling?

Thanks, Stephen Stokes.

Hello,
Your wine is very young, and you're fine. I've made plum wine, and you
need to give it more time to clear on its own. I usually don't bottle my
wine until it is about 8 months old - which might include 2-4 rackings in
that 8 months depending on how cloudy the wine is. Yes, it sounds like you
have too much head space in your carboy and that would be a concern. You
need to get your wine in 1 or more carboys with bungs and airlocks with very
little head room. I do 1 gallon batches and there is barely 1 inch of
headspace between the wine and the bung. Do keep some wine back for top-up -
when you rack the wine off the sediment (which will continue to drop over
the next few months). I like to keep all my wine in the dark as much as
possible, especially when you're aging it. I wait until the wine is clear
before bottling. If you bottle a young cloudy wine, you'll get sediment in
your bottles, so you need to decide if that's acceptable or not. The most I
get in my bottles is a dusting of sediment. I let time do its work - I've
only had to fine with bentonite 2 or three wines in the 4 years I've been
making wine. Good-luck. Plum wine is a yummy wine.
Darlene
Wisconsin

"sjstokes" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello. I hope someone can indulge a complete beginner and help me out
> with a few questions on some plum wine I've recently made.
>
> 1) The fermentation finished about three weeks ago. I've racked the
> wine three times since and now, although I'm getting very little
> sediment at the bottom of the container, the wine is still very cloudy.
> What would be the best way to clear it? I've tried pectolase, both
> before fermentation started and also a bit afterwards. I've also added
> a small quantity of bentonite. Is there anything I've missed/done wrong
> or am I just being impatient?
> 2) I made about 22 litres and the liquid is in a large carboy which
> could hold maybe another 10 litres or so. Is there any risk to the wine
> in there being so much air sitting on top of the wine while it clears?
> The process of racking is adding fresh air ro the carboy. Will this air
> oxidise the wine or affect its flavour detrimentally?
> 3) I read that the wine should be fermented in the dark which I
> complied with. Does it need to remain in the dark while it clears?
> 4) Does the wine have to be completely clear before I bottle it or does
> the clearing process continue after bottling?
>
> Thanks, Stephen Stokes.
>

In article >, Dar V
> writes
>Hello,
> Your wine is very young, and you're fine. I've made plum wine, and you
>need to give it more time to clear on its own. I usually don't bottle my
>wine until it is about 8 months old - which might include 2-4 rackings in
>that 8 months depending on how cloudy the wine is. Yes, it sounds like you
>have too much head space in your carboy and that would be a concern. You
>need to get your wine in 1 or more carboys with bungs and airlocks with very
>little head room. I do 1 gallon batches and there is barely 1 inch of
>headspace between the wine and the bung. Do keep some wine back for top-up -
>when you rack the wine off the sediment (which will continue to drop over
>the next few months). I like to keep all my wine in the dark as much as
>possible, especially when you're aging it. I wait until the wine is clear
>before bottling. If you bottle a young cloudy wine, you'll get sediment in
>your bottles, so you need to decide if that's acceptable or not. The most I
>get in my bottles is a dusting of sediment. I let time do its work - I've
>only had to fine with bentonite 2 or three wines in the 4 years I've been
>making wine. Good-luck. Plum wine is a yummy wine.

Dar, if a finished wine is in its 1 gallon storage vessel, cleared and
fermentation ceased, is it beneficial to leave it in there to mature, or
will it do that better after it has been bottled? I have two or three
now at that stage and I am not sure whether to bottle them yet.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Hello

I've just bottled a gallon of plum wine yesterday. It was a year old and
clear as spring water, and yummy ! I didn't use any fining agent either. I
won't touch it for at least another year.

Marc, Québec

"Alan Gould" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> In article >, Dar V
> > writes
> >Hello,
> > Your wine is very young, and you're fine. I've made plum wine, and
you
> >need to give it more time to clear on its own. I usually don't bottle my
> >wine until it is about 8 months old - which might include 2-4 rackings in
> >that 8 months depending on how cloudy the wine is. Yes, it sounds like
you
> >have too much head space in your carboy and that would be a concern. You
> >need to get your wine in 1 or more carboys with bungs and airlocks with
very
> >little head room. I do 1 gallon batches and there is barely 1 inch of
> >headspace between the wine and the bung. Do keep some wine back for
top-up -
> >when you rack the wine off the sediment (which will continue to drop over
> >the next few months). I like to keep all my wine in the dark as much as
> >possible, especially when you're aging it. I wait until the wine is clear
> >before bottling. If you bottle a young cloudy wine, you'll get sediment
in
> >your bottles, so you need to decide if that's acceptable or not. The most
I
> >get in my bottles is a dusting of sediment. I let time do its work - I've
> >only had to fine with bentonite 2 or three wines in the 4 years I've been
> >making wine. Good-luck. Plum wine is a yummy wine.
>
> Dar, if a finished wine is in its 1 gallon storage vessel, cleared and
> fermentation ceased, is it beneficial to leave it in there to mature, or
> will it do that better after it has been bottled? I have two or three
> now at that stage and I am not sure whether to bottle them yet.
> --
> Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Alan,
There's two types of aging a wine. One is bulk aging in a carboy, and the
other is bottle aging. I think both are important and contribute different
things to a wine. We all have to decide how long we can bulk age a wine. I
started with bulk aging until 7 months, I'm trying to let the wines bulk age
to 8 months now - I'd like to go longer, but I was working on building up my
stock. It took four years, but I now have enough wine on hand so that I
don't run out, and I can allow certain wines to age the proper amount of
time. I still probably don't bulk age as much as I should. It depends on the
wine - strawberry wine is better at a young age and loses something by 1
year, so I won't bulk age that wine that long. Pumpkin wine is better at 2
years, so that could bulk age longer, but it does fine in the bottle from 7
months old to aging to two years. Each wine is different and I would check
Jack's site for his suggestions on which wines benefit from aging longer.
Some on this site bulk age for years.... Anyway, it is up to you...my only
concern is that if you bottle too soon sometimes you can end up with bottle
bombs - the wine might be quiet now but sometimes things change. And I do
get concerned when beginner winemakers get discouraged after bottling to
early and then they end up with 1/2 inch of sediment in their bottles. The
wine is still drinkable after you decant, but the wine could be much better.
Hope this helps.
Darlene

"Alan Gould" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Dar V
> > writes
>>Hello,
>> Your wine is very young, and you're fine. I've made plum wine, and you
>>need to give it more time to clear on its own. I usually don't bottle my
>>wine until it is about 8 months old - which might include 2-4 rackings in
>>that 8 months depending on how cloudy the wine is. Yes, it sounds like you
>>have too much head space in your carboy and that would be a concern. You
>>need to get your wine in 1 or more carboys with bungs and airlocks with
>>very
>>little head room. I do 1 gallon batches and there is barely 1 inch of
>>headspace between the wine and the bung. Do keep some wine back for
>>top-up -
>>when you rack the wine off the sediment (which will continue to drop over
>>the next few months). I like to keep all my wine in the dark as much as
>>possible, especially when you're aging it. I wait until the wine is clear
>>before bottling. If you bottle a young cloudy wine, you'll get sediment in
>>your bottles, so you need to decide if that's acceptable or not. The most
>>I
>>get in my bottles is a dusting of sediment. I let time do its work - I've
>>only had to fine with bentonite 2 or three wines in the 4 years I've been
>>making wine. Good-luck. Plum wine is a yummy wine.
>
> Dar, if a finished wine is in its 1 gallon storage vessel, cleared and
> fermentation ceased, is it beneficial to leave it in there to mature, or
> will it do that better after it has been bottled? I have two or three
> now at that stage and I am not sure whether to bottle them yet.
> --
> Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

This I think is one point where the kits are really nice for us beginners.
While they don't necessarily make the best wine if you're following their
instructions, the wine is good, and it's ready in a month or three. I know
if I had just been doing the smaller batches from scratch, and not doing
kits too, i would have been discouraged already(yes, I've only been at this
for a little more than two months, but I'm definitely not the most patient
person ). The kits have allowed me to get something done now, that I can
see, taste, and enjoy, which allows me to be more patient with my other
batches, and let them properly age, clear and degas. Just racked my first
two batches for the second time, barely any sediment this time around, will
probably rack at least one more time before I even think about
stabilizing(two welch's recipes from Jack's site), but already I can start
to see a nice clear wine, and the taste is developing nicely(I start siphon
just by suckign on end, so get a little taste to see how it's doing ).

But I also was able to enjoy a nice bottle of an Island mist kit, and part
of a bottle of a Merlot, that I made from a Winexpert kit. The merlot is
still a bit young, of course, and will benefit from more aging in the
bottle, but at least it let's me open a bottle that I made myself, and have
that good feeling of accomplishment(and save me some money to boot).

Joel

"Dar V" > wrote in message
...
> Alan,
> There's two types of aging a wine. One is bulk aging in a carboy, and the
> other is bottle aging. I think both are important and contribute different
> things to a wine. We all have to decide how long we can bulk age a wine. I
> started with bulk aging until 7 months, I'm trying to let the wines bulk
age
> to 8 months now - I'd like to go longer, but I was working on building up
my
> stock. It took four years, but I now have enough wine on hand so that I
> don't run out, and I can allow certain wines to age the proper amount of
> time. I still probably don't bulk age as much as I should. It depends on
the
> wine - strawberry wine is better at a young age and loses something by 1
> year, so I won't bulk age that wine that long. Pumpkin wine is better at 2
> years, so that could bulk age longer, but it does fine in the bottle from
7
> months old to aging to two years. Each wine is different and I would check
> Jack's site for his suggestions on which wines benefit from aging longer.
> Some on this site bulk age for years.... Anyway, it is up to you...my only
> concern is that if you bottle too soon sometimes you can end up with
bottle
> bombs - the wine might be quiet now but sometimes things change. And I do
> get concerned when beginner winemakers get discouraged after bottling to
> early and then they end up with 1/2 inch of sediment in their bottles. The
> wine is still drinkable after you decant, but the wine could be much
better.
> Hope this helps.
> Darlene
>
> "Alan Gould" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, Dar V
> > > writes
> >>Hello,
> >> Your wine is very young, and you're fine. I've made plum wine, and
you
> >>need to give it more time to clear on its own. I usually don't bottle my
> >>wine until it is about 8 months old - which might include 2-4 rackings
in
> >>that 8 months depending on how cloudy the wine is. Yes, it sounds like
you
> >>have too much head space in your carboy and that would be a concern. You
> >>need to get your wine in 1 or more carboys with bungs and airlocks with
> >>very
> >>little head room. I do 1 gallon batches and there is barely 1 inch of
> >>headspace between the wine and the bung. Do keep some wine back for
> >>top-up -
> >>when you rack the wine off the sediment (which will continue to drop
over
> >>the next few months). I like to keep all my wine in the dark as much as
> >>possible, especially when you're aging it. I wait until the wine is
clear
> >>before bottling. If you bottle a young cloudy wine, you'll get sediment
in
> >>your bottles, so you need to decide if that's acceptable or not. The
most
> >>I
> >>get in my bottles is a dusting of sediment. I let time do its work -
I've
> >>only had to fine with bentonite 2 or three wines in the 4 years I've
been
> >>making wine. Good-luck. Plum wine is a yummy wine.
> >
> > Dar, if a finished wine is in its 1 gallon storage vessel, cleared and
> > fermentation ceased, is it beneficial to leave it in there to mature, or
> > will it do that better after it has been bottled? I have two or three
> > now at that stage and I am not sure whether to bottle them yet.
> > --
> > Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.
>
>

Listen to those above, your wine is way to young to worry about clearing.
If left on it's own, it will probably clear in 2 to 4 months. If it does
not, that is when to worry about it. Also, you are racking WAY to
frequently. You are losing wine with each racking. After you rack off of
secondary fermentation, you should not rack again for 4 to 8 weeks, even if
there is some sediment. It will hurt nothing.

One question. Did you use pectic enzyme? If not you may have a pectic haze
but it is too early to worry about that.

Ray

"sjstokes" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello. I hope someone can indulge a complete beginner and help me out
> with a few questions on some plum wine I've recently made.
>
> 1) The fermentation finished about three weeks ago. I've racked the
> wine three times since and now, although I'm getting very little
> sediment at the bottom of the container, the wine is still very cloudy.
> What would be the best way to clear it? I've tried pectolase, both
> before fermentation started and also a bit afterwards. I've also added
> a small quantity of bentonite. Is there anything I've missed/done wrong
> or am I just being impatient?
> 2) I made about 22 litres and the liquid is in a large carboy which
> could hold maybe another 10 litres or so. Is there any risk to the wine
> in there being so much air sitting on top of the wine while it clears?
> The process of racking is adding fresh air ro the carboy. Will this air
> oxidise the wine or affect its flavour detrimentally?
> 3) I read that the wine should be fermented in the dark which I
> complied with. Does it need to remain in the dark while it clears?
> 4) Does the wine have to be completely clear before I bottle it or does
> the clearing process continue after bottling?
>
> Thanks, Stephen Stokes.
>

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I've just been a bit impatient!

Ray,

I used pectic enzyme both before fermentation started and again after
it had finished. I don't know if pectin was present after fermentation
but have since read that I can test for it with methylated spirits.
Fortunately, I didn't lose very much wine with the racking I've done so
far presumably because I hadn't left it long enough for much sediment
to fall!

Dar V,

I'm going to transfer the wine into four or five demijohns so that I
can drastically reduce the amount of air sitting on top of the wine and
then I'll leave it in the dark for a few months before checking it
again. Would leaving maybe an inch between the top of the demijohn and
the bung be a suitable buffer?

Thanks very much for your help.

Do you have access to 3 gallon or 5 gallon carboys, instead of breaking down
your batch into 1 gallon carboys? 1 gallon carboys are fine, I just thought
you might like to know some other generic sizes which are out there. 1 inch
headspace is okay - you need to be aware that depending on where you store
your wine and how cool it is, may affect that. I usually leave less
headspace because I store my carboys in the basement and it is much cooler
down there so the wine contracts. But I have been surprised when the
basement warms up in the summer, how this can come back to haunt me...lol.
Good-luck and welcome.
Darlene


"sjstokes" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Thanks for all the replies. I guess I've just been a bit impatient!
>
> Ray,
>
> I used pectic enzyme both before fermentation started and again after
> it had finished. I don't know if pectin was present after fermentation
> but have since read that I can test for it with methylated spirits.
> Fortunately, I didn't lose very much wine with the racking I've done so
> far presumably because I hadn't left it long enough for much sediment
> to fall!
>
> Dar V,
>
> I'm going to transfer the wine into four or five demijohns so that I
> can drastically reduce the amount of air sitting on top of the wine and
> then I'll leave it in the dark for a few months before checking it
> again. Would leaving maybe an inch between the top of the demijohn and
> the bung be a suitable buffer?
>
> Thanks very much for your help.
>