I'm new at winemaking and just made my first two batches. One Welch's
concord red and one Welch's Niagara white. All has gone well so far and
I just got them into 1 gallon carboys with airlocks. So far they were
at about 75 degrees F. Should I continue to keep them at the 75 temp
or would it be better to keep them in the storm cellar at 62 degrees F?
I used 71B yeast and thought I saw a temp range of 60 - 85 degrees for
that yeast. Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Roger Wino-Nouvaux wrote:
I'm new at winemaking and just made my first two batches. One Welch's
concord red and one Welch's Niagara white. All has gone well so far and
I just got them into 1 gallon carboys with airlocks. So far they were
at about 75 degrees F. Should I continue to keep them at the 75 temp
or would it be better to keep them in the storm cellar at 62 degrees F?
I used 71B yeast and thought I saw a temp range of 60 - 85 degrees for
that yeast. Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Hi Roger

If fermentation is complete you want to bulk age your wine at cellar
temperature ~55-65 degrees F. If fermentation is not complete the yeast
will require more heat ~75-85 F to continue to dryness.

HTH

Frank

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And if you cannot hit the ideal temperature, use the temperature that is
convenient to you. I bet most of us just it the stuff in our house. It
will age just fine, if not optimally, at room temperature (72-78) and few
would ever tell the difference.

Ray

"Frank Mirigliano" wrote in message
...
Roger Wino-Nouvaux wrote:
I'm new at winemaking and just made my first two batches. One Welch's
concord red and one Welch's Niagara white. All has gone well so far and
I just got them into 1 gallon carboys with airlocks. So far they were
at about 75 degrees F. Should I continue to keep them at the 75 temp
or would it be better to keep them in the storm cellar at 62 degrees F?
I used 71B yeast and thought I saw a temp range of 60 - 85 degrees for
that yeast. Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Hi Roger

If fermentation is complete you want to bulk age your wine at cellar
temperature ~55-65 degrees F. If fermentation is not complete the yeast
will require more heat ~75-85 F to continue to dryness.

HTH

Frank

Thanks Frank and Ray ... I appreciate the feedback! Today I
encountered a problem. Several days ago I transfered both the white
and red to secondaries (after 6 days in the primary). The red (made
from Welch's frozen concentrate but had no sulfites) was at s.g. 1.030
but the white (which was from frozen concentrate but apparently
contained sulfites according to the ingredients) was at s.g. 1.045 All
was going well and showed good bubble activity in the airlocks till
today. The red is still doing fine, but the white has "stoped"! The
s.g. on the white is still at s.g.1.035 and appears to be stuck. I am
now wondering if I should have waited longer before transfering to
secondaries ... most of the recipees I have seen say 5 to 7 days.
Should the transfer take place at a specific s.g. level rather than a
specific number of days? If so, what is the proper s.g.? Again,
thanks in advance for any help! (this is fun but I have a lot to
learn). :-)

Roger,
I've made a number of wines over the years with the Welch's frozen
concentrate. Last year, I noticed the batches were getting stuck once I
moved them to a carboy with an airlock - I made the decision the next time
around to not transfer to a carboy with airlock until the SG hit 0. I think
these batches need a bit more oxygen for the yeast to finish the job, so I
keep them in my fermentation container (covered in plastic, and stir 2tx a
day) until they hit 0. I have also started adding 1 tsp of yeast nutrient to
the 1 gallon batch to help the yeast; which is something else I had not done
before. Hope this helps.
Darlene
Wisconsin

"Roger Wino-Nouvaux" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks Frank and Ray ... I appreciate the feedback! Today I
encountered a problem. Several days ago I transfered both the white
and red to secondaries (after 6 days in the primary). The red (made
from Welch's frozen concentrate but had no sulfites) was at s.g. 1.030
but the white (which was from frozen concentrate but apparently
contained sulfites according to the ingredients) was at s.g. 1.045 All
was going well and showed good bubble activity in the airlocks till
today. The red is still doing fine, but the white has "stoped"! The
s.g. on the white is still at s.g.1.035 and appears to be stuck. I am
now wondering if I should have waited longer before transfering to
secondaries ... most of the recipees I have seen say 5 to 7 days.
Should the transfer take place at a specific s.g. level rather than a
specific number of days? If so, what is the proper s.g.? Again,
thanks in advance for any help! (this is fun but I have a lot to
learn). :-)

Don't know what is going on here Roger, but I have never had a white frozen
concentrate batch to stick but I have never managed to get a red to finish.
They start at 1.080 and all stick at about 1.030. The opposite our your
experience. Darlene's observations are interesting but I am not sure about
needing more O2. That sounds risky but you can't argue with success.

I discussed this problem with Jack Keller and he suggested that it may be
that in racking out of the primary to secondary I left too much active yeast
behind. He suggested to try stirring the batch before racking and then rack
the cloudy liquid which would have more yeast. After all, you are not
trying to leave fruit pulp behind or worried about clearing the wine at this
stage. It was too late for the batches I had trouble with so I have not
tried his suggestion. The one thing that concerns me about his suggestion
is that I could not restart the stuck batches. I should have been able to
if it was just that I had lost the yeast.

Ray

"Roger Wino-Nouvaux" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks Frank and Ray ... I appreciate the feedback! Today I
encountered a problem. Several days ago I transfered both the white
and red to secondaries (after 6 days in the primary). The red (made
from Welch's frozen concentrate but had no sulfites) was at s.g. 1.030
but the white (which was from frozen concentrate but apparently
contained sulfites according to the ingredients) was at s.g. 1.045 All
was going well and showed good bubble activity in the airlocks till
today. The red is still doing fine, but the white has "stoped"! The
s.g. on the white is still at s.g.1.035 and appears to be stuck. I am
now wondering if I should have waited longer before transfering to
secondaries ... most of the recipees I have seen say 5 to 7 days.
Should the transfer take place at a specific s.g. level rather than a
specific number of days? If so, what is the proper s.g.? Again,
thanks in advance for any help! (this is fun but I have a lot to
learn). :-)

Ray,
When I first started making these batches from Welch's frozen
concentrate, I would start them in a carboy with a bung and airlock. I was
following Terry's Garey's suggestions in Terry's book and things seemed to
work just fine. Then, I noticed about a year & 1/2 ago, that the batches
started to stick, and I was left with very sweet wines with a very low
alcohol content. For me, most of them are good dry at an SG of 0 or below.
Anyway, I decided to treat them like a wine I would make from scratch
with fruit in a fermentation jug. I would combine all the ingredients as
before, except I would add yeast nutrient. Of course, I would cover it with
plastic, and stir the must 2tx a day. Since I started doing this, I've never
had a batch stick, and I've always been able to get the Welch's red & white
must to ferment to dry. I'm sort-of a scientifically-challenged person, and
I can't tell you why this works. My thoughts were that the yeast nutrient
maybe helped the yeast to complete its task, and/or that by stirring the
must (adding a bit of oxygen) maybe helped the yeast along as well. I don't
believe any of the batches ever spoiled or oxidized, because I always used
Montrachet yeast and they would ferment to dry in 3-5 days.
Maybe, you and Jack can figure out the scientifically correct reasons
why this works, I only know it does. I agree with you Ray, I could never
restart the Welch's batches which stuck, and to this day, I don't know why
they did...?
Darlene

"Ray Calvert" wrote in message
news
Don't know what is going on here Roger, but I have never had a white
frozen concentrate batch to stick but I have never managed to get a red to
finish. They start at 1.080 and all stick at about 1.030. The opposite
our your experience. Darlene's observations are interesting but I am not
sure about needing more O2. That sounds risky but you can't argue with
success.

I discussed this problem with Jack Keller and he suggested that it may be
that in racking out of the primary to secondary I left too much active
yeast behind. He suggested to try stirring the batch before racking and
then rack the cloudy liquid which would have more yeast. After all, you
are not trying to leave fruit pulp behind or worried about clearing the
wine at this stage. It was too late for the batches I had trouble with so
I have not tried his suggestion. The one thing that concerns me about his
suggestion is that I could not restart the stuck batches. I should have
been able to if it was just that I had lost the yeast.

Ray

"Roger Wino-Nouvaux" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks Frank and Ray ... I appreciate the feedback! Today I
encountered a problem. Several days ago I transfered both the white
and red to secondaries (after 6 days in the primary). The red (made
from Welch's frozen concentrate but had no sulfites) was at s.g. 1.030
but the white (which was from frozen concentrate but apparently
contained sulfites according to the ingredients) was at s.g. 1.045 All
was going well and showed good bubble activity in the airlocks till
today. The red is still doing fine, but the white has "stoped"! The
s.g. on the white is still at s.g.1.035 and appears to be stuck. I am
now wondering if I should have waited longer before transfering to
secondaries ... most of the recipees I have seen say 5 to 7 days.
Should the transfer take place at a specific s.g. level rather than a
specific number of days? If so, what is the proper s.g.? Again,
thanks in advance for any help! (this is fun but I have a lot to
learn). :-)

In article , Dar V
writes
I've made a number of wines over the years with the Welch's frozen
concentrate.

Darlene, in an earlier thread you mentioned having made a zucchini wine.
We have masses of these at present (we call them courgettes), so I am
considering making a wine from them. I have white grape juice, both
concentrated and unconcentrated. Could you outline your method please.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Alan,
I got my original zucchini recipe from Jack's site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , but I changed it a bit. I would
suggest you take a look at Jack's recipe and mine; and then decide which you
think you'd like best. For example, Jack uses ginger root. I didn't think
I'd like that, so I didn't use it; just as I don't really like the taste of
lemon, so I don't use them when making any wine. Having said that, you
should know that I have not had a chance to really taste the wine. I bottled
my first batch in December, and from what I've read, veggie wines take
longer to reach their potential. I did try it when I bottled it - it tasted
like a basic white wine, but it had quite a kick yet.

Zucchini Wine (1 Gallon recipe)
6-7 quarts of frozen shredded zucchini
1 can of Welch's 100 % white Grape juice
3 1/2 quarts of water (use more water if you have not frozen your
zucchini 4 qts + 1 cup)
4 1/2 cups sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/4 tsp tannin
1 1/3 tsp acid blend
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1 package wine yeast
(After it started fermenting I added 5 ripe bananas - no skins, cut up
in pieces/for more body & just because I had them around and no
one wanted to eat them)

The wine had an 11 % alcohol by volume. It cleared very early, and I didn't
need to fine. I stabilized, added an additional 1/3 cup sugar, and bottled
at 7 months. The second batch I'm currently making is very cloudy, so I will
probably have to fine this batch of wine.
Good-luck
Darlene

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Dar V
writes
I've made a number of wines over the years with the Welch's frozen
concentrate.

Darlene, in an earlier thread you mentioned having made a zucchini wine.
We have masses of these at present (we call them courgettes), so I am
considering making a wine from them. I have white grape juice, both
concentrated and unconcentrated. Could you outline your method please.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Thanks Darlene, as I had planned on coming back to this thread this morning
and asking if you'd post your recipe too. Plan on trying Jacks' to
start, but may try yours too, as I plan on making at least 2-3 batches over
the next month while they're in season(and will do pumpkins in October).
Meant to start on them this month, but didn't think ahead, and am busy
working through several batches of grapefruit wine.

Anyway, thank you for sharing the recipe.

Joel

"Dar V" wrote in message
...
Alan,
I got my original zucchini recipe from Jack's site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , but I changed it a bit. I
would
suggest you take a look at Jack's recipe and mine; and then decide which
you
think you'd like best. For example, Jack uses ginger root. I didn't think
I'd like that, so I didn't use it; just as I don't really like the taste
of
lemon, so I don't use them when making any wine. Having said that, you
should know that I have not had a chance to really taste the wine. I
bottled
my first batch in December, and from what I've read, veggie wines take
longer to reach their potential. I did try it when I bottled it - it
tasted
like a basic white wine, but it had quite a kick yet.

Zucchini Wine (1 Gallon recipe)
6-7 quarts of frozen shredded zucchini
1 can of Welch's 100 % white Grape juice
3 1/2 quarts of water (use more water if you have not frozen your
zucchini 4 qts + 1 cup)
4 1/2 cups sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/4 tsp tannin
1 1/3 tsp acid blend
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1 package wine yeast
(After it started fermenting I added 5 ripe bananas - no skins, cut up
in pieces/for more body & just because I had them around and no
one wanted to eat them)

The wine had an 11 % alcohol by volume. It cleared very early, and I
didn't
need to fine. I stabilized, added an additional 1/3 cup sugar, and bottled
at 7 months. The second batch I'm currently making is very cloudy, so I
will
probably have to fine this batch of wine.
Good-luck
Darlene

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Dar V
writes
I've made a number of wines over the years with the Welch's frozen
concentrate.

Darlene, in an earlier thread you mentioned having made a zucchini wine.
We have masses of these at present (we call them courgettes), so I am
considering making a wine from them. I have white grape juice, both
concentrated and unconcentrated. Could you outline your method please.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Good-luck. I've always wondered if cinnamon sticks would be a good additive
to zucchini wine, because you see it added to baked goods with zucchini in
them. Something I might try in the future.
Let us know how your wine goes.
Darlene

"Joel Sprague" wrote in message
news:%YlMe.674$UI.427@okepread05...
Thanks Darlene, as I had planned on coming back to this thread this
morning
and asking if you'd post your recipe too. Plan on trying Jacks' to
start, but may try yours too, as I plan on making at least 2-3 batches
over
the next month while they're in season(and will do pumpkins in October).
Meant to start on them this month, but didn't think ahead, and am busy
working through several batches of grapefruit wine.

Anyway, thank you for sharing the recipe.

Joel

"Dar V" wrote in message
...
Alan,
I got my original zucchini recipe from Jack's site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , but I changed it a bit. I
would
suggest you take a look at Jack's recipe and mine; and then decide which
you
think you'd like best. For example, Jack uses ginger root. I didn't think
I'd like that, so I didn't use it; just as I don't really like the taste
of
lemon, so I don't use them when making any wine. Having said that, you
should know that I have not had a chance to really taste the wine. I
bottled
my first batch in December, and from what I've read, veggie wines take
longer to reach their potential. I did try it when I bottled it - it
tasted
like a basic white wine, but it had quite a kick yet.

Zucchini Wine (1 Gallon recipe)
6-7 quarts of frozen shredded zucchini
1 can of Welch's 100 % white Grape juice
3 1/2 quarts of water (use more water if you have not frozen your
zucchini 4 qts + 1 cup)
4 1/2 cups sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/4 tsp tannin
1 1/3 tsp acid blend
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1 package wine yeast
(After it started fermenting I added 5 ripe bananas - no skins, cut
up
in pieces/for more body & just because I had them around and no
one wanted to eat them)

The wine had an 11 % alcohol by volume. It cleared very early, and I
didn't
need to fine. I stabilized, added an additional 1/3 cup sugar, and
bottled
at 7 months. The second batch I'm currently making is very cloudy, so I
will
probably have to fine this batch of wine.
Good-luck
Darlene

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Dar V
writes
I've made a number of wines over the years with the Welch's frozen
concentrate.

Darlene, in an earlier thread you mentioned having made a zucchini
wine.
We have masses of these at present (we call them courgettes), so I am
considering making a wine from them. I have white grape juice, both
concentrated and unconcentrated. Could you outline your method please.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

Ask me again in a year or so when they're ready to drink and I'll be happy
to.

That's really my only complaint about this hobby, the months or years
between start and end of a project is a little grating.

Joel

"Dar V" wrote in message
...
Good-luck. I've always wondered if cinnamon sticks would be a good
additive
to zucchini wine, because you see it added to baked goods with zucchini in
them. Something I might try in the future.
Let us know how your wine goes.
Darlene

"Joel Sprague" wrote in message
news:%YlMe.674$UI.427@okepread05...
Thanks Darlene, as I had planned on coming back to this thread this
morning
and asking if you'd post your recipe too. Plan on trying Jacks' to
start, but may try yours too, as I plan on making at least 2-3 batches
over
the next month while they're in season(and will do pumpkins in October).
Meant to start on them this month, but didn't think ahead, and am busy
working through several batches of grapefruit wine.

Anyway, thank you for sharing the recipe.

Joel

"Dar V" wrote in message
...
Alan,
I got my original zucchini recipe from Jack's site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp , but I changed it a bit. I
would
suggest you take a look at Jack's recipe and mine; and then decide
which
you
think you'd like best. For example, Jack uses ginger root. I didn't
think
I'd like that, so I didn't use it; just as I don't really like the
taste
of
lemon, so I don't use them when making any wine. Having said that, you
should know that I have not had a chance to really taste the wine. I
bottled
my first batch in December, and from what I've read, veggie wines take
longer to reach their potential. I did try it when I bottled it - it
tasted
like a basic white wine, but it had quite a kick yet.

Zucchini Wine (1 Gallon recipe)
6-7 quarts of frozen shredded zucchini
1 can of Welch's 100 % white Grape juice
3 1/2 quarts of water (use more water if you have not frozen your
zucchini 4 qts + 1 cup)
4 1/2 cups sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
1/4 tsp tannin
1 1/3 tsp acid blend
1/2 tsp pectic enzyme
1 package wine yeast
(After it started fermenting I added 5 ripe bananas - no skins, cut
up
in pieces/for more body & just because I had them around and
no
one wanted to eat them)

The wine had an 11 % alcohol by volume. It cleared very early, and I
didn't
need to fine. I stabilized, added an additional 1/3 cup sugar, and
bottled
at 7 months. The second batch I'm currently making is very cloudy, so I
will
probably have to fine this batch of wine.
Good-luck
Darlene

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Dar V
writes
I've made a number of wines over the years with the Welch's frozen
concentrate.

Darlene, in an earlier thread you mentioned having made a zucchini
wine.
We have masses of these at present (we call them courgettes), so I am
considering making a wine from them. I have white grape juice, both
concentrated and unconcentrated. Could you outline your method
please.
--
Alan Gould. North Lincolnshire, UK.

If you can ferment them out in 3-5 days, you are probably safe from
oxidation. One other trick you might consider is that after the
fermentation starts slowing down and SG is drops below 1.020, you might try
laying a layer of plastic wrap on top of the fermenting must. Just float it
on top of it and let the extra run up the sides of the bucket. Any CO2
coming off will find a way out around the edges but the plastic will form an
imperfect barrier to O2 that should slow down the oxidation. Bubbles will
form under the wrap but those are, of course, CO2 and only improve the
barrier. I have used this when doing extended soak with grapes. I cannot
swear it helps but it seamed logical to me.

As far as the science of why they stick, from discussions that have taken
place, it sounds like they have changed their processing methods and not for
the better of the winemaker!

Ray

"Dar V" wrote in message
...
Ray,
When I first started making these batches from Welch's frozen
concentrate, I would start them in a carboy with a bung and airlock. I was
following Terry's Garey's suggestions in Terry's book and things seemed to
work just fine. Then, I noticed about a year & 1/2 ago, that the batches
started to stick, and I was left with very sweet wines with a very low
alcohol content. For me, most of them are good dry at an SG of 0 or below.
Anyway, I decided to treat them like a wine I would make from scratch
with fruit in a fermentation jug. I would combine all the ingredients as
before, except I would add yeast nutrient. Of course, I would cover it
with plastic, and stir the must 2tx a day. Since I started doing this,
I've never had a batch stick, and I've always been able to get the Welch's
red & white must to ferment to dry. I'm sort-of a
scientifically-challenged person, and I can't tell you why this works. My
thoughts were that the yeast nutrient maybe helped the yeast to complete
its task, and/or that by stirring the must (adding a bit of oxygen) maybe
helped the yeast along as well. I don't believe any of the batches ever
spoiled or oxidized, because I always used Montrachet yeast and they would
ferment to dry in 3-5 days.
Maybe, you and Jack can figure out the scientifically correct reasons
why this works, I only know it does. I agree with you Ray, I could never
restart the Welch's batches which stuck, and to this day, I don't know why
they did...?
Darlene

Thanks for the other trick you mentioned. You know, that's the only thing I
can think of too - is that the company is doing something different in their
processing methods, and naturally, it isn't a good thing for winemakers. At
first, you know, I kept thinking it was just me this was happening to, but
the more I hear around here, it seems to be happening all over. Even as we
speak, I'm starting a new batch of Welch's 100% White Grape Raspberry.
Darlene ;o)

"Ray Calvert" wrote in message
t...
If you can ferment them out in 3-5 days, you are probably safe from
oxidation. One other trick you might consider is that after the
fermentation starts slowing down and SG is drops below 1.020, you might
try laying a layer of plastic wrap on top of the fermenting must. Just
float it on top of it and let the extra run up the sides of the bucket.
Any CO2 coming off will find a way out around the edges but the plastic
will form an imperfect barrier to O2 that should slow down the oxidation.
Bubbles will form under the wrap but those are, of course, CO2 and only
improve the barrier. I have used this when doing extended soak with
grapes. I cannot swear it helps but it seamed logical to me.

As far as the science of why they stick, from discussions that have taken
place, it sounds like they have changed their processing methods and not
for the better of the winemaker!

Ray

"Dar V" wrote in message
...
Ray,
When I first started making these batches from Welch's frozen
concentrate, I would start them in a carboy with a bung and airlock. I
was following Terry's Garey's suggestions in Terry's book and things
seemed to work just fine. Then, I noticed about a year & 1/2 ago, that
the batches started to stick, and I was left with very sweet wines with a
very low alcohol content. For me, most of them are good dry at an SG of 0
or below.
Anyway, I decided to treat them like a wine I would make from scratch
with fruit in a fermentation jug. I would combine all the ingredients as
before, except I would add yeast nutrient. Of course, I would cover it
with plastic, and stir the must 2tx a day. Since I started doing this,
I've never had a batch stick, and I've always been able to get the
Welch's red & white must to ferment to dry. I'm sort-of a
scientifically-challenged person, and I can't tell you why this works. My
thoughts were that the yeast nutrient maybe helped the yeast to complete
its task, and/or that by stirring the must (adding a bit of oxygen) maybe
helped the yeast along as well. I don't believe any of the batches ever
spoiled or oxidized, because I always used Montrachet yeast and they
would ferment to dry in 3-5 days.
Maybe, you and Jack can figure out the scientifically correct reasons
why this works, I only know it does. I agree with you Ray, I could never
restart the Welch's batches which stuck, and to this day, I don't know
why they did...?
Darlene