Hi Everyone,

Well, it looks like my wines are finally ready to go into the barrels. I
have never used real barrels so I am a bit confused on how to prep them.
Most of the books/web sites I have read have conflicting opinions on how to
prep a barrel. Some say to wash the barrel only with water prior to adding
the wine and some talk about soaking the barrel in 'Soda Ash' to clean and
leech some of the strong Oak flavours from new barrels. Could Soda Ash help
with a small barrel?

I have a 5 g (20L) American Oak barrel and I have a 55 L French Oak barrel
in its way... My main concern is after all the hard work I age it to the
small American Oak barrel, I'll end up with, "Eau-de-Chene." What should I
do?

Thanks,

Shawn

"Inferno" wrote in message
...
Hi Everyone,

Well, it looks like my wines are finally ready to go into the barrels. I
have never used real barrels so I am a bit confused on how to prep them.
Most of the books/web sites I have read have conflicting opinions on how
to
prep a barrel. Some say to wash the barrel only with water prior to adding
the wine and some talk about soaking the barrel in 'Soda Ash' to clean and
leech some of the strong Oak flavours from new barrels. Could Soda Ash
help
with a small barrel?

I have a 5 g (20L) American Oak barrel and I have a 55 L French Oak barrel
in its way... My main concern is after all the hard work I age it to the
small American Oak barrel, I'll end up with, "Eau-de-Chene." What should I
do?

Thanks,

Shawn

Hi Shawn,

First of all you should fill the barrels with water to swell the staves
and check for leakage. After that it partly depends on what wine you want
to make. Personally I always ferment a white (usually chardonnay) in the
barrel, followed by barrel aging of a red wine. In these cases I do not
treat the barrels with anything. If I wasn't going to make a white I would
put my red straight into the French oak barrel untreated, but I would
consider treating (with soda ash) the American oak barrel. I have found
that untreated (or unfermented) American oak barrels impart some fairly
harsh/green tannins that are not apparent in the French oak barrels. I'm
not sure how universal this is, it may have something to do with the
producers (my American were from Gibbs, French from Moreau). Last, I don't
know what the fermenting does to the oak (particularly the American oak) but
from my side by side comparisons it does make a noticeable difference.

Hope that helps,
Tim

"Inferno" wrote in message
...
Hi Everyone,

Well, it looks like my wines are finally ready to go into the barrels. I
have never used real barrels so I am a bit confused on how to prep them.
Most of the books/web sites I have read have conflicting opinions on how
to
prep a barrel. Some say to wash the barrel only with water prior to adding
the wine and some talk about soaking the barrel in 'Soda Ash' to clean and
leech some of the strong Oak flavours from new barrels. Could Soda Ash
help
with a small barrel?

I have a 5 g (20L) American Oak barrel and I have a 55 L French Oak barrel
in its way... My main concern is after all the hard work I age it to the
small American Oak barrel, I'll end up with, "Eau-de-Chene." What should I
do?

Make sure the barrel is tight by filling it with water first. When it stops
leaking, empty it and immediately fill it with wine and bung it tight with a
rubber bung (silicone, if possible). Be sure to check it every few days to
be sure it's topped up to the brim - especially at first. Also be sure your
sulfite is set where it should be. When you pull the bung, sniff at the
bunghole for off odors, look at the surface of the wine (It should be
pristine.) and take a taste to monitor its progress. When it tastes oaky
enough for your palate, leave it in a bit longer and then fine it (optional)
and rack it to carboy(s) for bottling. Wash the barrel thoroughly with hot
water, burn a sulfur wick in it and bung it tight. Wrap the bung with Saran
Wrap to keep the SO2 gas from attacking the bung.

I recommend that you _not_ use soda ash, Barrel Kleen or anything of the
kind in a new barrel because you'll end up throwing a lot of that expensive
oak down the drain.

Tom S

"Inferno" wrote in message
...
Hi Everyone,

Well, it looks like my wines are finally ready to go into the barrels. I
have never used real barrels so I am a bit confused on how to prep them.
Most of the books/web sites I have read have conflicting opinions on how
to
prep a barrel. Some say to wash the barrel only with water prior to adding
the wine and some talk about soaking the barrel in 'Soda Ash' to clean and
leech some of the strong Oak flavours from new barrels. Could Soda Ash
help
with a small barrel?

I have a 5 g (20L) American Oak barrel and I have a 55 L French Oak barrel
in its way... My main concern is after all the hard work I age it to the
small American Oak barrel, I'll end up with, "Eau-de-Chene." What should I
do?

Make sure the barrel is tight by filling it with water first. When it stops
leaking, empty it and immediately fill it with wine and bung it tight with a
rubber bung (silicone, if possible). Be sure to check it every few days to
be sure it's topped up to the brim - especially at first. Also be sure your
sulfite is set where it should be. When you pull the bung, sniff at the
bunghole for off odors, look at the surface of the wine (It should be
pristine.) and take a taste to monitor its progress. When it tastes oaky
enough for your palate, leave it in a bit longer and then fine it (optional)
and rack it to carboy(s) for bottling. Wash the barrel thoroughly with hot
water, burn a sulfur wick in it and bung it tight. Wrap the bung with Saran
Wrap to keep the SO2 gas from attacking the bung.

I recommend that you _not_ use soda ash, Barrel Kleen or anything of the
kind in a new barrel because you'll end up throwing a lot of that expensive
oak down the drain.

Tom S

Tim,

The primary reason for the difference between barrels made in North America
and Europe is the species of oak. There are literally hundreds of species
of oak, but the term American oak refers to a species of white oak called
Quercus alba. There are two major types of white european oak used in
barrel making, Quercus sessiliflora and Quercus robur and, generally
speaking, european oaks impart less harsh tannins than american oak, hence
the oakiness of the wine is more subtle and gradual than with american oak.

However, coopers in europe pay more attention to the specific district in
which the oak is grown rather than the particular variety, and, like grapes,
the same variety of oak can take on different characteristics due to the
management of the forests, soil type, etc. The main differentiating factors
include the relative openess of the grain (more open tends to impart
flavours more quickly) and of course the relative concentrations of tyloses
and other substances that ultimately impart flavour into the wine.

There have been large quantities of wine consumed by the coopers and
winemakers while arguing the relative and subjective merits of oak barrels
from different regions of France and the rest of europe. Of course like all
ongoing discussions, there are few hard, fast answers.

Cheers,

Glen Duff
-----------------


"Tim O'Connor" wrote in message
...

"Inferno" wrote in message
...
Hi Everyone,

Well, it looks like my wines are finally ready to go into the barrels. I
have never used real barrels so I am a bit confused on how to prep them.
Most of the books/web sites I have read have conflicting opinions on how
to
prep a barrel. Some say to wash the barrel only with water prior to
adding
the wine and some talk about soaking the barrel in 'Soda Ash' to clean
and
leech some of the strong Oak flavours from new barrels. Could Soda Ash
help
with a small barrel?

I have a 5 g (20L) American Oak barrel and I have a 55 L French Oak
barrel
in its way... My main concern is after all the hard work I age it to the
small American Oak barrel, I'll end up with, "Eau-de-Chene." What should
I
do?

Thanks,

Shawn

Hi Shawn,

First of all you should fill the barrels with water to swell the staves
and check for leakage. After that it partly depends on what wine you want
to make. Personally I always ferment a white (usually chardonnay) in the
barrel, followed by barrel aging of a red wine. In these cases I do not
treat the barrels with anything. If I wasn't going to make a white I
would put my red straight into the French oak barrel untreated, but I
would consider treating (with soda ash) the American oak barrel. I have
found that untreated (or unfermented) American oak barrels impart some
fairly harsh/green tannins that are not apparent in the French oak
barrels. I'm not sure how universal this is, it may have something to do
with the producers (my American were from Gibbs, French from Moreau).
Last, I don't know what the fermenting does to the oak (particularly the
American oak) but from my side by side comparisons it does make a
noticeable difference.

Hope that helps,
Tim

"Glen Duff" wrote in message
...
Tim,
Snip of useful information on French and American Oak.

There have been large quantities of wine consumed by the coopers and
winemakers while arguing the relative and subjective merits of oak barrels
from different regions of France and the rest of europe. Of course like
all ongoing discussions, there are few hard, fast answers.

Cheers,

Glen Duff

Hi Glen,
I too have consumed much wine while pondering the merits of French and
American oak. Also, I agree that one can't overlook the cooperage, I am
sure it has a profound impact on the quality of the barrel. What I have
found more surprising is not the difference between the American and French
oak, but the difference between american oak barrels that have fermented a
wine, versus those that haven't. The oak flavors appear to me to be quite
different (although this is from an n = 4!) I vaguely recall some
speculation(s) on what the fermentation does to a barrel, but I can't recall
what they were.

Thanks for the information.
Tim

"Glen Duff" wrote in message
...
Tim,
Snip of useful information on French and American Oak.

There have been large quantities of wine consumed by the coopers and
winemakers while arguing the relative and subjective merits of oak barrels
from different regions of France and the rest of europe. Of course like
all ongoing discussions, there are few hard, fast answers.

Cheers,

Glen Duff

Hi Glen,
I too have consumed much wine while pondering the merits of French and
American oak. Also, I agree that one can't overlook the cooperage, I am
sure it has a profound impact on the quality of the barrel. What I have
found more surprising is not the difference between the American and French
oak, but the difference between american oak barrels that have fermented a
wine, versus those that haven't. The oak flavors appear to me to be quite
different (although this is from an n = 4!) I vaguely recall some
speculation(s) on what the fermentation does to a barrel, but I can't recall
what they were.

Thanks for the information.
Tim

"Glen Duff" wrote in message
...
Tim,
Snip of useful information on French and American Oak.

There have been large quantities of wine consumed by the coopers and
winemakers while arguing the relative and subjective merits of oak barrels
from different regions of France and the rest of europe. Of course like
all ongoing discussions, there are few hard, fast answers.

Cheers,

Glen Duff

Hi Glen,
I too have consumed much wine while pondering the merits of French and
American oak. Also, I agree that one can't overlook the cooperage, I am
sure it has a profound impact on the quality of the barrel. What I have
found more surprising is not the difference between the American and French
oak, but the difference between american oak barrels that have fermented a
wine, versus those that haven't. The oak flavors appear to me to be quite
different (although this is from an n = 4!) I vaguely recall some
speculation(s) on what the fermentation does to a barrel, but I can't recall
what they were.

Thanks for the information.
Tim

"Glen Duff" wrote in message
...
Tim,
Snip of useful information on French and American Oak.

There have been large quantities of wine consumed by the coopers and
winemakers while arguing the relative and subjective merits of oak barrels
from different regions of France and the rest of europe. Of course like
all ongoing discussions, there are few hard, fast answers.

Cheers,

Glen Duff

Hi Glen,
I too have consumed much wine while pondering the merits of French and
American oak. Also, I agree that one can't overlook the cooperage, I am
sure it has a profound impact on the quality of the barrel. What I have
found more surprising is not the difference between the American and French
oak, but the difference between american oak barrels that have fermented a
wine, versus those that haven't. The oak flavors appear to me to be quite
different (although this is from an n = 4!) I vaguely recall some
speculation(s) on what the fermentation does to a barrel, but I can't recall
what they were.

Thanks for the information.
Tim

You got good advice already, but just as a heads up:

I have a new 5 gallon American, I made a frame to hold it first. I
filled it full of cool water to rehydrate, it took about 5 hours for
the leaks to stop. Most of the leaking was from the heads. It just
needed time, that's all. After a good rinse I drained and sulfited it
and filled it with mostly fermented out red wine. I am letting it
finish in the barrel. I intend to keep it full from now on by rotating
one wine in after another. It's my first use of a barrel (it was a
gift).

Remember the surface to volume ratio is way higher on a small barrel so
take what you read about barrels with a grain of salt since they are
usually using a 55 gallon barrel as a frame of reference. A 5 gallon
will impart it's flavors quicker than one 10 times as large so you will
need to taste it much earier than you might in a normal 30 to 60 gallon
barrel.

Joe

Inferno wrote:
Hi Everyone,

Well, it looks like my wines are finally ready to go into the
barrels. I
have never used real barrels so I am a bit confused on how to prep
them.
Most of the books/web sites I have read have conflicting opinions on
how to
prep a barrel. Some say to wash the barrel only with water prior to
adding
the wine and some talk about soaking the barrel in 'Soda Ash' to
clean and
leech some of the strong Oak flavours from new barrels. Could Soda
Ash help
with a small barrel?

I have a 5 g (20L) American Oak barrel and I have a 55 L French Oak
barrel
in its way... My main concern is after all the hard work I age it to
the
small American Oak barrel, I'll end up with, "Eau-de-Chene." What
should I
do?

Thanks,

Shawn

You got good advice already, but just as a heads up:

I have a new 5 gallon American, I made a frame to hold it first. I
filled it full of cool water to rehydrate, it took about 5 hours for
the leaks to stop. Most of the leaking was from the heads. It just
needed time, that's all. After a good rinse I drained and sulfited it
and filled it with mostly fermented out red wine. I am letting it
finish in the barrel. I intend to keep it full from now on by rotating
one wine in after another. It's my first use of a barrel (it was a
gift).

Remember the surface to volume ratio is way higher on a small barrel so
take what you read about barrels with a grain of salt since they are
usually using a 55 gallon barrel as a frame of reference. A 5 gallon
will impart it's flavors quicker than one 10 times as large so you will
need to taste it much earier than you might in a normal 30 to 60 gallon
barrel.

Joe

Inferno wrote:
Hi Everyone,

Well, it looks like my wines are finally ready to go into the
barrels. I
have never used real barrels so I am a bit confused on how to prep
them.
Most of the books/web sites I have read have conflicting opinions on
how to
prep a barrel. Some say to wash the barrel only with water prior to
adding
the wine and some talk about soaking the barrel in 'Soda Ash' to
clean and
leech some of the strong Oak flavours from new barrels. Could Soda
Ash help
with a small barrel?

I have a 5 g (20L) American Oak barrel and I have a 55 L French Oak
barrel
in its way... My main concern is after all the hard work I age it to
the
small American Oak barrel, I'll end up with, "Eau-de-Chene." What
should I
do?

Thanks,

Shawn