Does anyone know a formula to calculate the freezing temperature of
wine given the alcohol content? Or at least a good,
hang-your-hat-on-it-and-save-the-marriage-avoiding-a-broken-carboy rule
of thumb? I've looked a little for a water/alcohol freezing phase
diagram, and haven't found anything.

It's certainly not getting cold enough during my cold-soaks this year
to worry about it, but in future years, I want to know what to be ready
for.

Rob

Rob wrote:
Does anyone know a formula to calculate the freezing temperature of
wine given the alcohol content?

For dry wines, a rough rule is that the freezing point is the negative
temperature (as Celcius) of half the alcoholic content - so a 12% dry
wine freezes at about -6C (21 F).

HTH,

Ben

Rob wrote:
Does anyone know a formula to calculate the freezing temperature of
wine given the alcohol content? Or at least a good,
hang-your-hat-on-it-and-save-the-marriage-avoiding-a-broken-carboy rule
of thumb? I've looked a little for a water/alcohol freezing phase
diagram, and haven't found anything.

It's certainly not getting cold enough during my cold-soaks this year
to worry about it, but in future years, I want to know what to be ready
for.

Rob

Deriving the results from my long ago College Chemistry class, here is
what I calculated:

The active "Antifreeze" in wine, C2H5OH, has a molecular weight of 46.
Typical wine has a concentration of about 14 percent C2H5OH, or about
140 grams per liter. Using fairly rough calculations, 140 grams of
ethanol is about 3 moles of solute in about 850 ml of water forming a
3.5 molal solution. Water has a freezing point depression constant of
1.86, so wine which is 14 percent alcohol will freeze at about -6.5 C,
or about 20 F. Each percent change in alcohol concentration in this
range will change the freezing point by a little less than one degree
Fahrenheit.

Won't the temperature cause some seperation allowing some of the water to
freeze without the antifreeze benefits of the alcohol? Only reason I ask is
eisbock is made by freezing the beer and removing the ice, thereby
increasing the alcohol percentage of the remaining beer.....

"Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY&" wrote in message
...
Rob wrote:
Does anyone know a formula to calculate the freezing temperature of
wine given the alcohol content? Or at least a good,
hang-your-hat-on-it-and-save-the-marriage-avoiding-a-broken-carboy rule
of thumb? I've looked a little for a water/alcohol freezing phase
diagram, and haven't found anything.

It's certainly not getting cold enough during my cold-soaks this year
to worry about it, but in future years, I want to know what to be ready
for.

Rob

Deriving the results from my long ago College Chemistry class, here is
what I calculated:

The active "Antifreeze" in wine, C2H5OH, has a molecular weight of 46.
Typical wine has a concentration of about 14 percent C2H5OH, or about 140
grams per liter. Using fairly rough calculations, 140 grams of ethanol is
about 3 moles of solute in about 850 ml of water forming a 3.5 molal
solution. Water has a freezing point depression constant of 1.86, so wine
which is 14 percent alcohol will freeze at about -6.5 C, or about 20 F.
Each percent change in alcohol concentration in this range will change the
freezing point by a little less than one degree Fahrenheit.

Won't the temperature cause some seperation allowing some of the water to
freeze without the antifreeze benefits of the alcohol? Only reason I ask is
eisbock is made by freezing the beer and removing the ice, thereby
increasing the alcohol percentage of the remaining beer.....

"Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY&" wrote in message
...
Rob wrote:
Does anyone know a formula to calculate the freezing temperature of
wine given the alcohol content? Or at least a good,
hang-your-hat-on-it-and-save-the-marriage-avoiding-a-broken-carboy rule
of thumb? I've looked a little for a water/alcohol freezing phase
diagram, and haven't found anything.

It's certainly not getting cold enough during my cold-soaks this year
to worry about it, but in future years, I want to know what to be ready
for.

Rob

Deriving the results from my long ago College Chemistry class, here is
what I calculated:

The active "Antifreeze" in wine, C2H5OH, has a molecular weight of 46.
Typical wine has a concentration of about 14 percent C2H5OH, or about 140
grams per liter. Using fairly rough calculations, 140 grams of ethanol is
about 3 moles of solute in about 850 ml of water forming a 3.5 molal
solution. Water has a freezing point depression constant of 1.86, so wine
which is 14 percent alcohol will freeze at about -6.5 C, or about 20 F.
Each percent change in alcohol concentration in this range will change the
freezing point by a little less than one degree Fahrenheit.

"Brian" wrote in message
news:6tfGd.291$ul4.19@trnddc01...
Won't the temperature cause some seperation allowing some of the
water to freeze without the antifreeze benefits of the alcohol? Only
reason I ask is eisbock is made by freezing the beer and removing the
ice, thereby increasing the alcohol percentage of the remaining beer.....

Yes, this is true. But the "freezing" point that Bruce calculated isn't the
point where the whole batch of wine freezes, but the temperature at which
water starts to come out as ice crystals. As ice precipitates, the mother
liquor (appropriate term!) becomes richer in ethanol, and resists freezing
further- you will still have some liquid left at -40oC/F, which will be
about 40% ethanol, but you'll have lots of slush mixed in with it. And I'm
sure it would adversely affect the wine.

Cheers

"Brian" wrote in message
news:6tfGd.291$ul4.19@trnddc01...
Won't the temperature cause some seperation allowing some of the
water to freeze without the antifreeze benefits of the alcohol? Only
reason I ask is eisbock is made by freezing the beer and removing the
ice, thereby increasing the alcohol percentage of the remaining beer.....

Yes, this is true. But the "freezing" point that Bruce calculated isn't the
point where the whole batch of wine freezes, but the temperature at which
water starts to come out as ice crystals. As ice precipitates, the mother
liquor (appropriate term!) becomes richer in ethanol, and resists freezing
further- you will still have some liquid left at -40oC/F, which will be
about 40% ethanol, but you'll have lots of slush mixed in with it. And I'm
sure it would adversely affect the wine.

Cheers

At the point that the wine reaches a slushy mixture at -40C/F, the
liquid is no longer wine, it is brandy ).

While I agree that it's no longer wine, I'm sure that anyone who actually
drinks brandy would disagree with your classification.

Darren George wrote:
"Brian" wrote in message
news:6tfGd.291$ul4.19@trnddc01...

Won't the temperature cause some seperation allowing some of the
water to freeze without the antifreeze benefits of the alcohol? Only
reason I ask is eisbock is made by freezing the beer and removing the
ice, thereby increasing the alcohol percentage of the remaining beer.....


Yes, this is true. But the "freezing" point that Bruce calculated isn't the
point where the whole batch of wine freezes, but the temperature at which
water starts to come out as ice crystals. As ice precipitates, the mother
liquor (appropriate term!) becomes richer in ethanol, and resists freezing
further- you will still have some liquid left at -40oC/F, which will be
about 40% ethanol, but you'll have lots of slush mixed in with it. And I'm
sure it would adversely affect the wine.

Cheers


At the point that the wine reaches a slushy mixture at -40C/F, the
liquid is no longer wine, it is brandy ).

"Bruce_Nolte_N3LSY&" wrote in message news:RBjGd.6

At the point that the wine reaches a slushy mixture at -40C/F, the
liquid is no longer wine, it is brandy ).

Unless you were stirring the mixture at this temperature you would have and
ice brick with a liquor core.

Unless you were stirring the mixture at this temperature you would have
an ice brick with a liquor core.

That would depend on the volume you used, as well as the rate of cooling.
Anytime I've frozen wine (admittedly, on a scale of less than 5 gallons),
I've had a uniform slushination.

Perfect answers everyone, thank you! And I now have a new favorite
phrase - "uniform slushination"!

Perfect answers everyone, thank you! And I now have a new favorite
phrase - "uniform slushination"!

"Darren George" wrote in message
...
At the point that the wine reaches a slushy mixture at -40C/F, the
liquid is no longer wine, it is brandy ).

While I agree that it's no longer wine, I'm sure that anyone who actually
drinks brandy would disagree with your classification.

Unless you have achived complete dryness, sg 0.989 or somesuch, the
remaining sugars make it yucky. Trust me.
Bob
--
Remember; Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.

"Darren George" wrote in message
...
At the point that the wine reaches a slushy mixture at -40C/F, the
liquid is no longer wine, it is brandy ).

While I agree that it's no longer wine, I'm sure that anyone who actually
drinks brandy would disagree with your classification.

Unless you have achived complete dryness, sg 0.989 or somesuch, the
remaining sugars make it yucky. Trust me.
Bob
--
Remember; Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.