Tom S wrote:

The best reason to avoid the drums that have contained bleach is that

there's the possibility of sufficient residue remaining to cause TCA
(trichloroanisole) problems in your wine. Commercial wineries no
longer use
hypochlorite (bleach) for this reason. It takes very little TCA for
it to
be a problem in wine - as little as a few parts per trillion IIRC.
TCA has
become such an issue that many wineries don't even use it to clean
_floors_
anymore!

Tom S

I agree 100%. It appears that the chlorine doesn't even have to come in
contact with anything that come into contact with the wine. One winery
attributed their TCA taint issue to residue in floor drains.
Chlorine has no place in a winery.

Andy

"JEP62" wrote in message
oups.com...

Tom S wrote:

The best reason to avoid the drums that have contained bleach is that

there's the possibility of sufficient residue remaining to cause TCA
(trichloroanisole) problems in your wine. Commercial wineries no
longer use
hypochlorite (bleach) for this reason. It takes very little TCA for
it to
be a problem in wine - as little as a few parts per trillion IIRC.
TCA has
become such an issue that many wineries don't even use it to clean
_floors_
anymore!

Tom S

I agree 100%. It appears that the chlorine doesn't even have to come in
contact with anything that come into contact with the wine. One winery
attributed their TCA taint issue to residue in floor drains.
Chlorine has no place in a winery.

I've been using it forever. What are "TCA problems"?

Andy

Doesn't drinking water contain chlorine?

Pp

JEP62 wrote:
Tom S wrote:

The best reason to avoid the drums that have contained bleach is
that

there's the possibility of sufficient residue remaining to cause
TCA
(trichloroanisole) problems in your wine. Commercial wineries no
longer use
hypochlorite (bleach) for this reason. It takes very little TCA
for
it to
be a problem in wine - as little as a few parts per trillion IIRC.
TCA has
become such an issue that many wineries don't even use it to clean
_floors_
anymore!

Tom S

I agree 100%. It appears that the chlorine doesn't even have to come
in
contact with anything that come into contact with the wine. One
winery
attributed their TCA taint issue to residue in floor drains.
Chlorine has no place in a winery.

Andy

"pp" wrote in message
oups.com...
Doesn't drinking water contain chlorine?

Pp

Not if you live on a small island and have a well. :-)


JEP62 wrote:
Tom S wrote:

The best reason to avoid the drums that have contained bleach is
that

there's the possibility of sufficient residue remaining to cause
TCA
(trichloroanisole) problems in your wine. Commercial wineries no
longer use
hypochlorite (bleach) for this reason. It takes very little TCA
for
it to
be a problem in wine - as little as a few parts per trillion IIRC.
TCA has
become such an issue that many wineries don't even use it to clean
_floors_
anymore!

Tom S

I agree 100%. It appears that the chlorine doesn't even have to come
in
contact with anything that come into contact with the wine. One
winery
attributed their TCA taint issue to residue in floor drains.
Chlorine has no place in a winery.

Andy

Our drinking water has a higher concentration of chlorine than therapeutic
levels of chlorine in public swimming pools.

"pp" wrote in message
oups.com...
Doesn't drinking water contain chlorine?

Pp

JEP62 wrote:
Tom S wrote:

The best reason to avoid the drums that have contained bleach is
that

there's the possibility of sufficient residue remaining to cause
TCA
(trichloroanisole) problems in your wine. Commercial wineries no
longer use
hypochlorite (bleach) for this reason. It takes very little TCA
for
it to
be a problem in wine - as little as a few parts per trillion IIRC.
TCA has
become such an issue that many wineries don't even use it to clean
_floors_
anymore!

Tom S

I agree 100%. It appears that the chlorine doesn't even have to come
in
contact with anything that come into contact with the wine. One
winery
attributed their TCA taint issue to residue in floor drains.
Chlorine has no place in a winery.

Andy

Our drinking water has a higher concentration of chlorine than therapeutic
levels of chlorine in public swimming pools.

"pp" wrote in message
oups.com...
Doesn't drinking water contain chlorine?

Pp

JEP62 wrote:
Tom S wrote:

The best reason to avoid the drums that have contained bleach is
that

there's the possibility of sufficient residue remaining to cause
TCA
(trichloroanisole) problems in your wine. Commercial wineries no
longer use
hypochlorite (bleach) for this reason. It takes very little TCA
for
it to
be a problem in wine - as little as a few parts per trillion IIRC.
TCA has
become such an issue that many wineries don't even use it to clean
_floors_
anymore!

Tom S

I agree 100%. It appears that the chlorine doesn't even have to come
in
contact with anything that come into contact with the wine. One
winery
attributed their TCA taint issue to residue in floor drains.
Chlorine has no place in a winery.

Andy

Bob wrote:

I've been using it forever. What are "TCA problems"?

Andy


TCA is a short name for 2,4,6-Trichloroanisole. It's a compound that
can be detected in very, very small concentrations (parts per trillion)
and is most commonly described as the smell of old, moldy cardboard.

Its formation is linked to combination of factors that include certain
molds detoxifying chlorine in the presence of phenolic compounds. It
has been traditionally blamed on corks (hence the nickname of a wine
tainted with TCA being called "corked"), but more recent evidence has
suggested that the TCA can and is commonly formed in the absence of
cork.

It doesn't appear to be formed unless chlorine and mold are present
but since it's impossible to eliminate mold in most environments (sans
a true clean room) it appears that the best way to reduce TCA creation
is to eliminate the use of chlorine in all steps of wine making.

IMHO, the wine industry had a very high level of TCA taint a while back
and a lot of this was traced back to some cork harvesters using
chlorine bleach to treat the cork bark to eliminate mold and other
infections. This practice (AFAIK) has been stopped and IMHO, the
incidence of TCA taint has been reduced. Couple that with the education
of wine makers about the hazards of using chlorine in the winery, and
I'm hopeful the incidence of TCA wines is on the decline.


pp wrote:
Doesn't drinking water contain chlorine?

Pp

Yes, most public tap water contains either chlorine or chloramines or
both. That's one of the reasons I use a sulfite rinse on all of my
equipement after rinsing with tap water. Sulfites can neutralize both
very quickly.

Andy

"Citlink News" wrote in message
...
Our drinking water has a higher concentration of chlorine than therapeutic
levels of chlorine in public swimming pools.

Use bottled drinking water to make your wines.

Tom S

Tom S wrote:
"Citlink News" wrote:

Our drinking water has a higher concentration of chlorine
than therapeutic levels of chlorine in public swimming pools.

Use bottled drinking water to make your wines.

What the hell!! Distill it yourself or get the Culligan man
do a pickup-n-delivery on demand.


Dick
--
Richard D. Adams, CPA
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated

Tom S wrote:
"Citlink News" wrote:

Our drinking water has a higher concentration of chlorine
than therapeutic levels of chlorine in public swimming pools.

Use bottled drinking water to make your wines.

What the hell!! Distill it yourself or get the Culligan man
do a pickup-n-delivery on demand.


Dick
--
Richard D. Adams, CPA
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated

I occasionally use bleach to clean my primary fermenter when it
becomes stained with red wine. I rinse well but am I running the risk
of TCA taint in the plastic primary and if so what cleaner would you
recommend?

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:41:24 -0000, (Dick Adams)
wrote:

Tom S wrote:
"Citlink News" wrote:

Our drinking water has a higher concentration of chlorine
than therapeutic levels of chlorine in public swimming pools.

Use bottled drinking water to make your wines.

What the hell!! Distill it yourself or get the Culligan man
do a pickup-n-delivery on demand.


Dick

"Jim" wrote in message
...

I occasionally use bleach to clean my primary fermenter when it
becomes stained with red wine. I rinse well but am I running the risk
of TCA taint in the plastic primary and if so what cleaner would you
recommend?

I myself have for many years used bleach for that purpose. It's OK as long
as you rinse very thoroughly.

A good alternative (although more expensive) would be sodium percarbonate.

Tom S

Jim
If you are using food grade Drums you will be ok to use bleach if you
rinse them really good two or three times and than use a good sanitizer. I
use food grade plastic for both my primary and secondary fomenters. I use
15 gal & 30 gal white plastic along with my 3, 5, 6 & 6 1/2 gal glass
carboys and I can't tell the different and believe me I would be the first
to know

Someone else wrote { Tom maybe } buy bottle water. Go one better, go
to your home center and buy your self a Reverse Osmosis water system. It
will be one of the best buy you ever make. You will never know how much
better your water will taste until you get one and your wine will also taste
that much better. I know because I had to prove to a friend one time, I
made two 5 gal carboy using tap water and two 5 gal carboys of reverse
osmosis water the wines were pear & concord grape. He was a beer drinker
he is now a wine drinker, kind of a wine connoisseur By yourself a good
water system,

Moe


"Jim" wrote in message
...

I occasionally use bleach to clean my primary fermenter when it
becomes stained with red wine. I rinse well but am I running the risk
of TCA taint in the plastic primary and if so what cleaner would you
recommend?

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 06:41:24 -0000, (Dick Adams)
wrote:

Tom S wrote:
"Citlink News" wrote:

Our drinking water has a higher concentration of chlorine
than therapeutic levels of chlorine in public swimming pools.

Use bottled drinking water to make your wines.

What the hell!! Distill it yourself or get the Culligan man
do a pickup-n-delivery on demand.


Dick

Jim wrote:
I occasionally use bleach to clean my primary fermenter when it
becomes stained with red wine. I rinse well but am I running the risk
of TCA taint in the plastic primary and if so what cleaner would you
recommend?

Consider using a metabisulfite sanitizer as a chaser. The sulphites will
react with the bleach residue and remove them.